00:13:25 Meirin Oan Evans: Yes Michel is taking minutes 00:13:49 Sudhir Malik: Meeting is being recorded now for benifit of those who cannot attend. Sorry I was not sure myself but looks like it is desired by participants 00:14:01 Zach: Thanks! 00:18:51 Sudhir Malik: Please put your thoughts here in the doc as we go along https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QEKe0rxLU_gDyXrae9uIqLzvHze06yRpUnaaM0xp6fA/edit#heading=h.hzo6vcuyb00s 00:19:03 Daniel S Katz: would a "certified HEP (software) trainer" be useful for grad students/postdocs looking for next jobs? 00:19:15 Sudhir Malik: Good idea 00:19:16 Meirin Oan Evans: I like the sound of that Dan 00:22:39 Daniel S Katz: Re the Carpentries, there is a lot of scalability, and this allows the cost of the core to be small compared with the effect, but the cost of the core is not zero - We should think about where the core is going to come from (the experiments make small commitments? IRIS-HEP?) 00:35:49 David Anthony Friday: re diversity. diversity we should maybe look to align our metrics with the metrics of the experiments. It’ll give training a clearer view of their exposure and availability within each collaboration. e.g. knowing 100% of attendees at a beginner course are early careers isn’t as useful as knowing that the 100% is only 5% of all the early career students that should be attending. 00:38:17 Meirin Oan Evans: Good point David. Might be worth getting in touch with LHC/CERN diversity group to see their metrics? (Sorry I don’t know of a diversity group wider than CERN) 00:39:02 Zach: I agree with David, but remember that the experiments are rather narrow in what they can “see” (affiliation, nationality, age, PhD or not, and binary gender I think might be it?). 00:40:22 Meirin Oan Evans: Yes shame… How would other factors be collected? Anything other than surveys? 00:41:56 David Anthony Friday: I think it'll always be self report surveys. You can't "enforce" providing diversity information but if it collaboration members have visibility of how the data is being used in these kind of metrics possible uptake would be okay 00:47:03 Daniel S Katz: what parts of training can be common? 1) processes, 2) content, 3) ? Which of these cross experiments? Which of them cross outside of HEP? 00:54:04 Meirin Oan Evans: Lukas do you mean asking “code this in Python?” And somehow measuring how well they actually did to give them a level? 00:54:55 Ben Krikler: It would be useful to ask these questions both before and after the lesson, the delta would be slightly more calibrated 00:55:06 Martha Hilton: More like asking what does this line of code do ? We do this for LHCb Starterkit and it works quite well to split people into groups for the HSF tutorials. 00:55:23 Daniel S Katz: Tracy has moved on, but if you need help identifying the right carpentries person for surveys, let me know 00:55:43 G. J. Peter Elmer: Thanks, Dan, we’ll follow up... 00:56:09 Meirin Oan Evans: I like that Martha. Multiple choice or free text? 00:56:27 Martha Hilton: Usually multiple choice. 01:13:00 Kilian Adriano Lieret: Google forms has output to a data sheet, so it's easy to be combined with any kind of other surveys 01:23:36 Kilian Adriano Lieret: actually we did have a dictionary there ;) 01:23:38 Kilian Adriano Lieret: https://hepsoftwarefoundation.org/training/educators.html 01:36:06 Daniel S Katz: I started some of the doc comments, but others have been adding and reorganizing 01:36:52 Daniel S Katz: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QEKe0rxLU_gDyXrae9uIqLzvHze06yRpUnaaM0xp6fA/edit# 01:38:15 Ben Krikler: I'm very sorry that I have to leave - thanks for the discussion and the invitation. I'll check the doc from today again later today. Sudhir and others, can we follow up later in the week? 01:38:25 Sudhir Malik: thanks Ben 01:44:14 Joe Haley: What is the link to the HSF page with the modules? 01:44:25 Michel Villanueva: https://hepsoftwarefoundation.org/training/curriculum.html 01:44:32 Sudhir Malik: https://hepsoftwarefoundation.org/training/curriculum.html 01:44:57 Joe Haley: Thanks! I was clicking through all the menu links and couldn’t seem to find it.. :-) 01:51:58 David DeMuth: A recent DUNE computing training: https://dune.github.io/computing-training-202105/ 02:00:15 Daniel S Katz: I need to drop off, but look forward to continuing this discussion and moving towards actions 02:05:57 Martha Hilton: LHCb members can mail the Starterkit mailing list so to share training and things you can email me or one of the other organisers and we can share? 02:11:10 Meirin Oan Evans: @Martha, to save the need for a messenger, are you signed up to hsf-training-wg@googlegroups.com ? ;) That’s where trainings are announced 02:16:57 Sudhir Malik: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13u2mpI4-Otg4YwROvt7Bi9cK13gJ5OLpB5MzProI0xg/edit#slide=id.g6f18e3e89f_2_52 02:17:03 Sudhir Malik: My slides are viewable now 02:17:06 Sudhir Malik: Sorry for that 02:18:44 Meirin Oan Evans: Metric: what percentage of each experiments’ introductory course is directly HSF material 02:19:31 Henry Schreiner: David’s audio is hard to hear, at least for me 02:20:04 Henry Schreiner: I’m going to have to step out for a lunch period (have a 5 year old to feed) 02:20:43 David Anthony Friday: Appologies, I'm unsure why my internet is unstable today 02:28:52 Sebastien Ponce: Sorry for the sound... 02:29:01 Sebastien Ponce: Yes, let's follow later 1 02:34:29 David Anthony Friday: actually our turn out was about 50% of the online attendance to the lessons on impactkit becuase we only provided attendance certificates if they said "something" at the hackathon