WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.000
Okay, so I think we can still get stuff again I'm going to turn on the record.

00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.000
Okey dokey.

00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:16.000
So the second session for the afternoon is dedicated to dedicated detectors. So the way we set this up because we will have a talk first on the forward.

00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:21.000
Currently proposed LP experiments, and then the transfers ones.

00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:40.000
So we'll have this first talk by Kyle, William who will introduce the forward section afters will have amatory talking about the transfers, and then we have plenty of time off to us to discuss these two and how these two contractions of research

00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:43.000
can work together. So, I think.

00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.000
Yes, sorry, go ahead.

00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:57.000
Can I just say one thing, so most people notice that it would have noticed this already because the regulars that have been coming to the workshops for a long time, but this is actually kind of a deviation from what we normally do obviously we have so

00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:10.000
many fascinating and, you know, dedicated LP detectors over the years that's a vibrant, you know, source of discussion, we typically have had a session, you know, on the first day that has, you know, short updates from each of the individual projects,

00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:19.000
and it's always a bunch of lively discussion this time, we wanted to switch it up a bit and try to go for two talks one that's about forward and one that's about the kind of transfers dedicated LP detectors.

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:30.000
In addition to that, because we didn't discourage anybody from submitting abstracts for the dedicated detectors. We also have a bunch of talks about the dedicated to textures that are that are specific updates.

00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:40.000
We decided to put them later in the week, as you can see from the, from the agenda, but just you know if you're coming to this for the first time this is sort of a deviation from us and looking forward to it because we've got two fantastic speakers are

00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:45.000
talking about it so I'm done. Thanks Carl.

00:01:45.000 --> 00:02:02.000
Indeed, so I can let you know when you have 10 minutes or so to go but in the meantime please get started at your own convenience thank you as well. So yeah, absolutely time to talk about current proposed forward Alex experiments which I couldn't resist

00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:08.000
the titling looking forward to all of these and apologies for any anything I missed.

00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.000
Just a one slide introduction.

00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:21.000
So obviously dedicated LP detectors mitigate several of the issues, such as London particles cannot detect as many of which Laura discussed.

00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:33.000
So this background is generally mitigated by rock or shielding between the production and the detectors, as well as reducing your background, this can often give simpler and in some cases even know triggering.

00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:40.000
You can obviously you're free to design a targeted detector and have specialized function.

00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:49.000
But even within these dedicated no detectors, the optimal design is strongly dependent on the tactics signature.

00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:56.000
So you can either have detectors transfers to the general purpose to the, to the attraction point or forward.

00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:11.000
Tons of swans which is mentioned gamma will talk about after me, a more dedicated towards heavier particles, whereas the forward ones, tend to target low mass LPs, which are produced in light of the case, which are generally picked in the forward direction,

00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:18.000
as you can see in this plot which shows the cross section of pions in momentum versus ample space.

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:29.000
And this also this whole production gnostic is raised to a largely Trina flex in the forward direction. As you can see an example of here for new e in the ether vs energy.

00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:42.000
The other thing about fall we're just like this, is there a general able to target longer out the lifetimes can patch transmits detectors did say, can replace the IP.

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:47.000
So there are three main detectors operating and run threes and I'm going to concentrate on.

00:03:47.000 --> 00:04:03.000
There are two detectors feature 480 meters, you've assigned to Atlas in either the chair 12 or 18 service tunnels. After the energy goes away, which are therefore shielded by from background by about 100 meters of rock.

00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:16.000
So one of these is phase of the forward search experiment, which is to the east of Atlas, and I suspect committed and dedicated is a new detective neutrinos situated on the line of sight.

00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:29.000
The other is a spectrum between detector RSMDHC to the west, which is a hybrid neutrino detector located off axis. In this age range.

00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:42.000
Now there's also the metal operators are penetrating articles on maps, which is basically a simulator plus PMT detector, located about 100 meters from Alex up and the main metal detector.

00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:47.000
In this UAE at three Kevin.

00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:59.000
One thing to note here is the prototype was actually in this UTC one Kevin here. This has actually moved to the fact that it would take too long to prepare safely as Kevin for run three.

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:06.000
So this is in a different position just about a factor to further away.

00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.000
So I want to start by saying a word on the kind of BS in physics sensitivity, I'll try to summarize that.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:27.000
So obviously the long way particles produced in the DB collisions travel for 100 meters before then, being detected by these experiments, and that generally sensitive to the masses in the multi MTV to load dv range, so faithful to kx longer particle the

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:34.000
case the Standard Model particles, usually pairs of things like electrons neutrons photons.

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:44.000
This gets tested models such as out and dark photons, you see an example of the sensitivity here for fazer for that photon in the plane of the coupling.

00:05:44.000 --> 00:06:01.000
This is the mass of SNDHC it's primarily looking at neutrinos, but it can also look at elastic or an elastic people interacting particle scattering pointy potentially fit sticking to the army pair.

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:09.000
This gives it access for example to very light, dark matter so central shown here that matters getting off the bionic contents of the detector.

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:32.000
This plot shows an example in Aleppo phobic that much scenario.

00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:38.000
particles, so particular I can look for longer particle case to manage has particles.

00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:43.000
You can also look for various models such as dark heads. for example, which is shown here.

00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:50.000
For the full brunt to data and the red contact. This is the mixing angle and the massive attack.

00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:59.000
It can also actually be sensitive very long path traffic particles from the main metal detector, they'll talk about later.

00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:04.000
So let's start with the phases detector. This is a small inexpensive detector.

00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:09.000
It's about seven meters long and about 10 centimeters in radius.

00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:20.000
So if you imagine something by mail piece it's just that photo coming in here from the right from Atlas passes to essentially a beaker system designed to project background through going new ones.

00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:28.000
Then into a decay volume, which has like six times the magnetic field where it would then decay, for example, into positron.

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:40.000
These and pass to to further magnets between space with three tracking chambers, each of which consists of three layers of leftover atlases the key modules.

00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:56.000
And in fact, you can see more about the tracker in the recent men paper, then passes to a center later push our system, and also an electromagnetic color emitter, which consists of four and it should be out of each, how to recount modules, each of which

00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:01.000
are laser center later and later.

00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:17.000
At the beginning here, we have a dedicated phase of new detector that I mentioned, which isn't a motion detector with alternating and milsom Films intensive Bates protection triggers, and you can see an example how the different flavors may look here.

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:32.000
So this has been successfully installed in to 12 and match, and it's shown in situ here where you can see the various factors that I mentioned in the previous page, which now includes the final components the interface tracker and forward weakness station.

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:39.000
I didn't include a partial phase A new box about a third of it, but you can see being installed here.

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:53.000
So there was a dedicated test team as I mentioned for the elements of last summer, but since then the whole detectors been ongoing and going into commissioning with Kosmix events and being a message back to paper on this been finalized application in

00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:58.000
a giant ship with the other three detectors.

00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:09.000
Starting with a calamity testing which is shown here, which was taken last summer, age to be with electrons of various energy and high energy new ones and pions.

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:19.000
So it looks something like this. It consists of 16 modules the four main ones and some spares, along with a pre show detector, and the interface tracker.

00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:30.000
You see here some examples of the various physics I see you see here the residuals for the interface tracker chapter alignment. This was a jewel is less microns.

00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:37.000
You see the ratio of the energy deposited in the two priests our channels, showing potential article identification.

00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:52.000
And here you saw the relative energy resolution versus the be managing for the testing data in black, compared to our simulation in red, but also since these are as I mentioned, the econ modules compared also to the Alex Ed.

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:57.000
and again of paper on this isn't package.

00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:05.000
Now, it's a 12 however fazer was actually able to see very excitedly The first thing particles, the recent 6.8 TV biotics tests.

00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:15.000
And you can see here, for example, you see the top view at a safety of these particles, which is the first products we've had the transverse the full detector.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:32.000
You can see in red, they fire, all the various insulated detectors, you can see three hits, each track of planes is a nice perimeter signals in the top two modules have a threshold that despite this is a relatively low rate we have about 50 or so thanks

00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:37.000
to these the loudest to get

00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:52.000
this wanted to mention a word on the face of you, which they said is a dedicated motion detector fazer, and the sensitive to this was confirmed by adding a pilot detective about 30 kilograms, different Calvin, you do 12, for one month.

00:10:52.000 --> 00:11:01.000
Previously, as Brian mentioned this is a 2.7 sigma the first Chino played initially no candidates showed here by the beach.

00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:10.000
You see a reconstructed event one of these two highest tier events, both from the side.

00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:17.000
face and he will actually be exchanged frequently about every three months in month three to keep the detector occupancy manageable.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:32.000
That's why currently we only have a partial box in a fake set as I mentioned, this will be exchanged by the full detector technical stuff one will then be in for around three months, change again into two, and so on.

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:45.000
So the procedure here is the, the most of the films are produced at CERN in Japan, and this has already been done. The first full detector shipped certain way there are assembled and installed in to 12.

00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:54.000
After three months exposure, they disassembled and developed and shipped, and where we have the full area readout. And the reconstruction.

00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:59.000
Here you see a few example pictures of this you see the emotion production facility in Japan.

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:09.000
Some module assembly going on at CERN, and the readout of via the high throughput scanning microscope, Japan.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.000
Apparently were actually undergoing a mock challenge, which are valid today is taking.

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:26.000
So here we want to test out full production chain from generation, all the way through to analysis and data so we're basically generating representative basketball background sorry and signal processes.

00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:37.000
So, you see here the detected I've shown several times now. Now, geometry fully implemented in our simulation, including the trench that it sits in.

00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:51.000
And you can see examples here of a representative background process to a single neuron, with the phase A new leaving as you can see in yellow. It's an all the trackers and a small energy deposit, appreciate it and color.

00:12:51.000 --> 00:13:09.000
so this case the hundred MeV photon became the plus the minus per game you see the track but now you see it splitting into the two decay particles here, and obviously lots more energy in the pre shower and the calc. So our goal here is to demonstrate

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:23.000
and and analysis workflow to finalize the software, discover any missing pieces, and it just jumps that the amount of effort ready for them to be good.

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:39.000
Let's move on to SMDNLHC, which is about a one by 2.6 meter detector that as I mentioned is located slightly off line of sight, and it's designed to tidy all three neutrino flavors, and also search effects.

00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:53.000
So as I mentioned, this is a hybrid detector. It consists of electronic detectors that are online, and an emotion code chamber similar to face a new, that is placed between months and Rica.

00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:10.000
So similar to face that the phone is a business insulated to reject new ones, followed by that two main detective arts target region consists of five motion and tungsten modules that provide vertex thing, and Italy for the same number of scintillating

00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:28.000
or sci fi trackers provide together these also allow electromagnetic coverage. This is followed by immune system consisting of eight believe since later bars, and I am blocks, and together with the sci fi Besides, I got a color.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:38.000
So if evening enchanted particles such as like that matter. Obviously, similar to neutrino it scatters off the atoms in the motion detector.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:49.000
It's got us off a proton, you start to see a hydraulic shower. This cat is off an electron, you would see an isolating action. iD iD electromagnetic shower.

00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:59.000
We also have good timing resolution here which allows us disentangle signals or potential signals from those who tweets.

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:13.000
So again, this was successfully installed into a team, just after the previous workshop. So, you see here the detector being installed in December last year, followed by the neutrino shield, which was installed at the scanner.

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:21.000
And then you can see the completed detector Institute. We maxed literally next to the Alex Ed.

00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:27.000
So here's some of your some of the main tech performance characteristics belted yes MSX program.

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:37.000
So the sci fi detector resolution was measured in cosmic events and a dedicated testing, giving a resolution to some resolution of less than 100 microns post alignment.

00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:52.000
The overall energy resolution is in the same region, you see here is dependence on energy for simulated electrons, but there was also a dedicated pay on just to see a picture of here to calibrate the energy.

00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:01.000
Finally This plot shows the time difference between the two ends downstream central actors around 172 seconds.

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:19.000
And this time of flight measurement can potentially allow SMD to push the BS and sensitivity to a mass, as you see in this plot which shows the new physics sensitivity coming from the time of flight in the metaverse mass play, potentially, like fazer

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:31.000
SMDL he has been undergoing in situ commissioning, and creating with cosmic rays for example which showed top view, and a side view here we see new one.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:41.000
And excitedly recently with LSE beam or you see him you're going through the full detector game, the top and a safety.

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:59.000
So finally for the room three detectors, we move on to metals map detector, which is a roughly one by two by four meter scintillating detector, which consists of 400 simulator bars and PMT for look like this, arranged in four sections, surrounded by Avital

00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:05.000
air, and here the particles of this time coming in from Alex up from the right.

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:17.000
So this is the same says the passage of multi touch particles, and also detect for example is shown here. Incoming neutral is a decay, for example, to a pair of new ones.

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:31.000
That just to this will actually be used to monitor the traffic detectors from the main metal detector, which will be exposed for a year. And then they'll be taken underground positions, near map.

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:44.000
This point yellow piece might decay. And that could be detected, giving sensitivity to charged LPs with very long lifetimes of the order of 10 years.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:55.000
Now as a February this year they have installed support family you can see here in ua two three, along with a fraction of the bars and various of the services.

00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:06.000
Now I mentioned earlier the location of this has changed. And this actually reduces the knowledge has particle sensitivity, as you can see here in this part for that photons became much as particles.

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:21.000
This is a fractional charge versus the mass, and you see the sensitivity in the original location, or this kind of burgundy color just slightly to this blue color in a new direction, although it does however, increase the level of lifetime reach, because

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:27.000
as I mentioned, you've dealt with this from interaction.

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:43.000
In the near future just after the run three there is a plan to install a supplementary off x detector. So you see a map detector here unless you post this new Africa detector consists of four layers of center later planks, and this will increase the sensitivity

00:18:43.000 --> 00:19:02.000
of both high math and high fraction challenge. And then in the longer 10 so for the highly master galaxy. It's a plan for a map to detector line in the walls, back in the renovated UGC one gallery, which is that about 55 meters, the line of sight.

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:15.000
And you can see here by the green line, compared to the red area in the doc Hicks sensitivity that I showed earlier this significantly extends the sensitive.

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:30.000
So I'll change it concentrating on future hiding rusty LHC plans, where there is a proposal to build a dedicated forward because it's so easy. The FPF for the HLLH era era.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:35.000
And the idea here is to benefit from the increased the musty in several ways.

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:49.000
By allowing longer detectors which obviously increase the target audience a volume sensational wider range of lifetimes, highlighting wider sectors, which, for example, increase sensitivity to production.

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:54.000
And by allowing new detectors, which will load complementary physics capabilities.

00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:09.000
So as you can see something here, this gives a rich and broad physics program, particular you have yes I'm back sector searches neutrino physics, and even Standard Model measurements.

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:21.000
Since the last LRP workshop, there has been a very detailed my 430 page, white paper summarizing all the studies and physics case for this forward.

00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:26.000
I'll summarize this briefly here.

00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:40.000
So, you have this for physics 30 you have BSN particles potentially a long lifetime produced in let's say Atlas, and they can detect it in various ways by variety of those experiments in Ireland, little while.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:53.000
A little while. So for example, you could have done that to step three, which can be identified in post flare experiment, you get really charged particles, which can be detected in the proposed experiment.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:03.000
And you can get along with the standard along with particles and things like quirks the updated fazer

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:12.000
for neutrino flux that I mentioned can also be used to search with the SM effects in various ways. You can have a neutrino production.

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.000
You can stare out neutrino isolation, but it's propagated.

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:28.000
And you could also have PSM neutrino interactions, such as a man a day for moment which flow would be sensitive to canon standard interactions which can

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:40.000
detect and also to self interactions which, for example, updated phase A new detective.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Okay, so since I'm on Faison, sorry, let me concentrate a little bit on the first phase of to experiment, which is basically conceptually a scaled up version of the current phase your experiment.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.000
It's no longer has a one meter radius rather than 10 centimeters, giving it something like 100 times the active area.

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:10.000
So he had particle coming in would have gone through a beetle a fleet of beetles too much. Now, and through the cave magnet. Lisa no surprise interacting with the field of around one Tesla.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:19.000
You can have tracking stations all that much larger so the idea here would be something like essentially sort of fiber tracker.

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:29.000
And then you have enhanced color imagery and also additional beyond detector, giving the ID.

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:46.000
So this gets access to a much wider physics program for very many models, which is dark factors see the Steelers scalars out have insurance, etc. You can see here, the wealth of the program in phase two, compared to the current phase phases.

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:59.000
You also see here some example sensitivities, I hate Chanel, in this case, toes Alps cup into fermion and dark Hicks, the latitude which cannot be accepted.

00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:11.000
You see the sensitivity here showing in red by phase two. Obviously, significantly larger and covered face.

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:24.000
They increase size also increases the sensitivity to higher massive see here in the dark for an example that I showed earlier, you've got the face or acceptance, the dark yellow, and then the lighter yellow face to acceptance, which was going down or

00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:33.000
companies with a significantly higher masses.

00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:42.000
Now there are currently the other experiments, probably closer to extend it to detectors and to new complimentary detectors.

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:57.000
So face a new is a 2010 in motion and tungsten detector attached to phase two, so very similar to the parent detector for 20 times larger focus of this would be on how you treat our measurements that are enabled by the higher rates of the hybrid nasty

00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:58.000
galaxy.

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.000
but it also has access to direct that matter sensitivity.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:20.000
And you can see this here on this bottle it shows a particular model the sensitivity of coupling and mass, and you see here at sensitivity in this green line.

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:31.000
matter it's Catherine, and you see this on the same by here in red, getting similar sensitivity to face as a new to sorry.

00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:49.000
Then, advanced snd is a updated of access materials sector to look for things like forward champ production and the low exclude PDF for in this file. In this plot, you see the improvement in the reach for this lecture for that matter model, I showed earlier,

00:24:49.000 --> 00:25:00.000
comparing the green and red line say the blue and red lines to the green line, that was executed Alex.

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.000
And the final new experiment is to Moza, which is a simulator tungsten detector to search for many charged particles.

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:25.000
And this gives significant sensitivity to uncharted regions of that photons for example became to manage particles. As you can see here, the purple line, which is more expensive than other experiments.

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.000
So that's the experiments. What about the facility itself.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:43.000
Well based on several studies from a certain civil engineering team, the baseline is now to have a new dedicated facility, something like 600 meters to the west of the SI p one.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:59.000
So this involves constructing new surface buildings next to the SME teen magnet facility. You can see here, and also a new a new underground cavern along with its axis shaft to fat not connected galaxy tunnels.

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:04.000
And this will then contain experiments that I previously outlines.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:20.000
So it's been a very preliminary cost estimate done for this which is about 40 million subtracts 23 million for the civil engineering and 15 million for the services, plus of course the experiments on top of that, but in fact this is one of the reasons

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:35.000
why previous supposedly you might have heard of alcoves in this existing UJ 12 area is discounted as this really limits the physics scope, and in fact in the endzone ends up costing 2.5 times less.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Now, a bit on the schedule to get to this, it's pretty tight. The civil engineering work needs to take place prior to, and during LS three, which is somewhat enabled by the lack of the connection to the LSC.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:57.000
The service installation will then take place after LS three as the 17th, or as you can imagine pretty busy do analysis three.

00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:05.000
And this will be followed by them two years at detective installation and commissioning alone physics to finally start around 2032.

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:16.000
So as you can see this is Ty and if you want to get to this, we need to move towards a CDR TDI type documents very soon.

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.000
So then moving up acknowledge my summary.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:34.000
So, I hope I've given you the power detectors get access to light, and we can interact and particle specific lifetime, and even small and then expecting to take inexpensive detectors, have a strong business case it's complimentary to the GTS and turn

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.000
on collider experiments.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:42.000
collider experiments. They provide sense to show wide range of IPS and models such as those disappear.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:51.000
And hope uncovered regions of a space. In fact, in some cases even already for the 2222 data.

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Three new detectors that I mentioned for three and making great progress towards them that they're taking, and please stay tuned for the first six results.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:08.000
And the longer term there's this proposal for dedicated forward physics facility, take advantage of it nasty galaxy, and hopefully give a rich and broad physics.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:18.000
But as I mentioned the timeline is tied. So if you're interested, please do get in touch with the, with the organizers and think about that.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.000
Thank you.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:37.000
Thank you so much for this really nice talk call, lots of very useful information here and just to remind you that we will have, they will be a dedicated session for discussion of this talk in the next one, but we do have time for a few questions on cars

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:52.000
talk specifically, and I see that Michael has his hand up so please go ahead. Yeah, just comment you might have mentioned among proposed forward detectors is facet which is I do subsystem proposal CMS, there's a talk on Wednesday about it, but it has

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:59.000
14 kilometers of vacuum volume which is unique to the HTC. So there's talk on Wednesday about that. That's it. Thank you.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:05.000
Yeah, sorry I missed that one in my in my in my satisfied that I

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:21.000
see there's also a question from Jose. Please go ahead. Yeah, so thanks carefully so I know it's not easy to you know make make such a talk, so I wanted to ask you about our physical facility because I didn't have time to look into the this nomadic part

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:32.000
so if I have a great idea for anyone have an idea for a follower that is essentially free a space there or is everything. I mean, essentially on the cheek and sold out.

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:42.000
How would they work if someone says oh I want to start detectable how I don't know, it may seem Tao it capabilities, because this this model that needs it.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.000
So how would it work in practice.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:30:04.000
So no and then also to the moment so these as I mentioned these experiments that I showed you the currently proposed experiments and obviously there is an example here of how they would potentially fit in, but obviously this is not set in stone yet the

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:14.000
And you know, this is this occurring relies on a strong physics case, because obviously we have to spend significant money building a new and you haven't.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:29.000
So the more cases we have a very strong ideas for experiments to this, the more likely I think it is to her. I think you can get in touch with the people who stole my study here or Jamie and Jonathan from the favor side here, some of you believe in this,

00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:39.000
and I'm sure they'd be happy to hear about you. Other ideas that could potentially fit in here.

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.000
Thanks.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Okay, thank you.

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:55.000
Um, okay we have time for one more and this one from Stan, and. Okay. probably this will be the last one but then we'll have a discussion session. Immediately afterwards where we can discuss anything else that comes to life, so please go ahead to them.

00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:13.000
Yeah, thanks for that. I have a question about the scattering experiments layer that is sensitive to among others, like Dark Matters Catherine. I was wondering what, maybe we can see it here on the summary plot, if you look at flare sensitivity compared

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:26.000
to for example LDMX or I think also Allison D, which are really very sensitive to such scattering scenarios, and why what limits flare of being more sensitive.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:44.000
So what is the, I think it's cannot really be the beam line which is arbitrarily long, in that case, so what what limits us here is there some way to, to improve the sensitivity towards towards lower couplings entire masses.

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.000
Say I'm not familiar enough with this to know exactly that.

00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:01.000
Maybe it says in this detailed document I don't know if there's someone else connected to you maybe knows that I'm afraid I don't know exactly what's the limiting factor here.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:18.000
I can try to look it up. Let me know if I see anything. You know, I mean it might be it might be the source that is different, it's you know it's I'm not able to tell it I thought there was an experimental purpose on experimental explanation, depending

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.000
on how the detectors built.

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:31.000
If it's a technical limitation, one could do something about it if it's about the positioning. Probably not.

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:37.000
But thanks yeah there's nothing we can do now.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
Okay.

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:51.000
So thanks for the question and maybe it's something we have to come back to. And in the meantime, thank you again, cold but please stick around so that we can have you for the, the discussion section as well.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:33:01.000
In the meantime, we hand over to Emma who will talk to us about the transverse direction. So, we can see your video, and if you can share your screen Yes, perfect.

00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:15.000
Okay, I will let you know when there's five minutes left. Please go ahead. Okay, so yeah, I had kind of an introduction to this but I think it was already covered extensively during doing today.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:21.000
So yeah basically trying to summarize, but it hasn't been already solved.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:37.000
The main experiments we have at the LSE are very good at some face basis to detect or to at least try to detect particles, but we know that there's many limitations like triggers constraint that Laura was talking about also lots of background from the

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:55.000
Model Indian. There's also always delimitation by size. So, in cases where the LLP is not integrated with anything else in the event that we can really detect with the main detectors then we're going to nice, the LP, if he leaves enough to the K outside.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:04.000
And then we really need some additional detectors to, to be able to catch this.

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:11.000
So there's really a lot of any proposals for, for, to take the piece at the let's see here.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:19.000
There's only a summary of a few skits of a few of the ones that I that I know.

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:24.000
This includes also forward and transfers many of them were actually mentioned by current.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:38.000
But the point here is that, because we have such a large range of Lifetime's from 10s of meters where atlases are in CMS are really sensitive to the Big Bang, listen to this limit which is tend to the eight meters.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:44.000
We also have a lot of different models giving different final states.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:51.000
So we really need a variety of detectors, and ideally if they are complementary to each other.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:55.000
So that in the end we can cover all these possibilities.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:11.000
Also when we're looking for along with particles normally they have very small couplings and very small production perception so we want to background searches, and ideally also large luminosity integrate luminosity.

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:30.000
So this was already mentioned as well. But there are two kinds, we can separate these detectors into kind so the forward ones that Carla already talked about with mainly aimed at lighter states so like mediators or apps or models that Carla you mentioned

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:52.000
in this talk, I will be talking about the other kind which are transparent detectors. And normally the same at heavier states or, but we will see that some of these dedicated Chancellor's at the doctors are also sensitive to even light, light particles.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:02.000
So starting from dedicated Longley particle experiments, aiming at at neutral LPs

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:10.000
and focusing on four experiments I may have forgotten someone some, so if that's the case, please let me know at the end of the talk.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:20.000
And so I will start with my first one, so this one is going to be placed above in the surface about the the CMS experiment.

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.000
About 70 meters away from from the IP from the interaction point horizontally.

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:32.000
And so the idea here is that because it's on the surface, it will have about 100 meters of rock that will that will act as a shielding.

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:47.000
That will act as a shielding. And so in the end, we aim for as your background analysis. Also it is. You can see that is a very light 200 meter times 100 meters square.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:58.000
And with these 25 meters high. So with this we get a very large degree volume together, a good solid angle for the experiment.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:13.000
Then it is made of several layers of tracking, they're going to be something like simulators would have to on the bottom that they will act as a veto to anything that may come from the, from the interaction and it starts.

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:27.000
And then we'll have another two sets of check ins one in the middle and one in the upper part of the detector. So in 2018. There was a standard was built, and it was placed right above Atlas.

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:48.000
Thanks to data in 2010 and with this we got this very nice blog where you can see that the backgrounds dimension that we had the simulation match very well with with what we saw in data which gives a lot of confidence in the background.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:38:07.000
Type offices made for the protective physics rate, an extra to his experiment is that besides being able to study LPs, it will also be able to do something with cosmic physics, just because it's such a large area of continuous detector.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:27.000
It will be very useful to study. Showers and possibly to do some deeper studies on the underneath of the perspective of the answers. There's also a possibility that he is understand it to other an RPC Tumblr.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:41.000
to improve the reconstruction for vertical showers, just because it looks Southern sleds less than that simulators. The next one is the movies at this one will go in Atlas.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:39:01.000
So the idea is that since we have the access shafts and also the government is there's quite a lot of space. Now the idea is to instrument of this empty space, but more, most probably with RPC so the idea is to have in the shaft four layers of our PCs

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:17.000
for tracking. That will give a good timing for cosmic rejection, and also for for displays with its construction. There are three configurations understudied, the only thing I want to think, is the only.

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:27.000
We don't really consider the shaft that that now there's also the option of, including part of the current or the full configuration.

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:42.000
So each of these layers, has a triplet, two triplet planes are pieces. So in the end we have two sets of three to the space points to reconstruct the tracks.

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:50.000
And in the, in the sensitivity plus that I would show later. Just to let you know.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:06.000
So for this sensitivity studies, there are two considerations, one is more conservative and it assumes that the backgrounds perspective in this movie is going to be similar to the one in Atlanta in the endless myriad system, asserts with the Emperor that

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:10.000
you would need to see about 50 signal events.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:19.000
The other one is a bit more optimistic and only requires for single events to have a story.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.000
The next one is going to be.

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:26.000
This will be placed close to LA TV.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:40.000
It will be used the space that now is by in the CPU.

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:50.000
So here, because it's underground, it's completely shifted from cosmetics, and it will have also two additional pieces of shielding for for the Elysee collisions.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:41:08.000
One is the government itself has a piece of shielding here. But then there's another additional shielding that will be placed in this location to the stop everything coming from the charts with comes from from the collision.

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:15.000
So they, the, the concept of the detector is a box of 1010 meters.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.000
10 times 10 times 10 volume.

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.000
meter squared.

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:42.000
And it will have six layers of our PCs also for tracking and for LAPD case vertex reconstruction. There is also a possibility to include kilometer. And, and maybe other materials to be able to reconstruct photons but this is also still under study.

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:59.000
For this one, there's one, I will talk a bit about plans for the near future, in, in the next slide, but just mentioned that there's a project to have a demonstrator bit to take data doing it could be as small

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:04.000
as more of a replica of this one, and it will be integrated with Alec city.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.000
It will be useful to study backgrounds and also the technology.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:26.000
Then we have Alex, which is a bit of a different concept, because it is built. So, this will be built only in the kind of unexpected or unlikely event that Alice Doesn't need to use the holy Palomino city fates.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:33.000
So, if that happens, this detector can use the undiscovered, they are the Alice's coven.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:48.000
So it will, it will be required to move the action points so that after the deletion, the LPS have some space to travel before the game.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:43:04.000
And then, so it will use the nightmare that Alice already has. And there will be also some addition for shielding right next to the, to the ID.

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:16.000
So try to make a deal with the Compare detector designs, I started adding many features that in the end, it was not easy to really do a proper comparison so I just left the.

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:26.000
The most obvious ones. I think one nice thing that we can see middle here is that there's a nice compliment it already in the collision points that we're going to use.

00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:34.000
So even as a crutch tech one for the other this this to be complimentary in a way.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:46.000
There's a way that I buy it in the distance from the iPad, which is good because that means that, In principle, we should be sensitive to different ranges of lifetime.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:44:02.000
And, of course, when you move very far away from the, from the IP was neither larger volume. And so, we also see regime, different volume so nothing stays really, the largest one and then the others are relatively smaller, just because they are closing

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:18.000
I'm about using the main experiment, and always will most probably use our class as a as a vehicle to do anything that comes from the interaction and Alex, of course with with not will not use a Alice's information.

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:26.000
and then football it's being Methuselah this attempts that they could use the main experiment, as we thought or as a trigger.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.000
In business, they'll understand.

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:45.000
Also, depending on the position, some of them are shielding from from cosmic some of them are actually from the collision course Let's be anonymous, because the underground, and they have additional sending, and they are very easy easily by country.

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:53.000
And then about technologies, you can see the most of them are going to use combination of RPC and simulators and in the case of violence that.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:07.000
So yeah but short time, plans and always is already progressing on the production of panelists, with is a small section of the of the experiment for commissioning.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000
So in the first day to could be placed on the surface.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:19.000
You can see small box. The blue point here, and it will be used to test the bank.

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:29.000
Main backgrounds, and then the idea is that in 2023 will be moved closer to the idea to study the, the other kinds of backgrounds coming from the collision.

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:36.000
And so, yeah, I think there's going to be also useful to test the synchronization with Atlas.

00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:39.000
Then, on nothing slum.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:50.000
The idea is that there's going to be a modular detector so we will have, I think it's 51, different modules so it can be assembled in different stages.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:05.000
So, yeah, the idea is to have the first one, used for also to test the backgrounds and technology, and also here, there will be at the coming, hopefully soon.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:23.000
And then for coders I already mentioned, they are working on collect steam, which is a smaller version of the fear detector with 15 surveys, and in this case they will not have adequate chilling, and it will be used to validate the reconstruction and

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.000
the background estimates. and that is how you're going to hear that timescale.

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:35.000
It's a really, it should be a very close to production, then comparing sensitivities.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:46.000
On this for experiments. And when they first use this model that Laura already mentioned is very useful because it's very simple.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:56.000
You can compare here sensitivities for different. So, here the you know the the lifetime so the longest particles is the scalar.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:10.000
So you can see the sensitivity here depending on the lifetime of the scalar, and renting renting fraction of the Higgs going to do this to scalars for two different methods.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:26.000
So yeah in here the green one or the purple ones here would be the best, the wrestling is having a blast. but they expect the limits for the industry Dylan, and then you can combine it with Codex be Alex and message law.

00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:35.000
And you can see that much love course because it's farther away, and it has a record, and it's back on free almost.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:47.000
It has a very good sensitivity. It's very nice to see that he if Alex would be also built is very much complimentary and they they cover different ranges of the lifetime.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:53.000
And then, if not then Codex be would be somehow also complimentary to Islam.

00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:02.000
And here I'm sorry I didn't find any of these places including all the exercises, super impose the ones that they found from an obese.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:17.000
Here, they're the dotted lines would be called explain these other larger kind of dotted line would be college be with one, a drone and also including the Delphine govern.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:28.000
And that's comparable comparable to the movies govern plus shaft. If we require 50 events for our discovery.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:43.000
So, that is very much compatible with called xv and in the last more optimistic case where we only need four events for signal, then the sensitivity becomes more compatible to that.

00:48:43.000 --> 00:49:01.000
We can also think about lower masses and Carla very fast. One of this plus but here I'm also comparing the sensitivity for Methuselah and movies and Alex, and that has been to some of the forward.

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:21.000
Detectives, and I think it's also nice to see here that they are complimentary so shape is the one that performs the best at low masses but then after one or two TV, both analysts and Muslims la start to be also sensitive and for very high masses in an

00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:26.000
Alex can can add something to this

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:45.000
thing going to try this. I'm going to talk only about this to the doctors, so studying, studying with medical, this was located already. A few years ago, in Delhi TV, Kevin, and he is dedicated to to tax LLP so highly organized and particles magnet magnetic

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:56.000
monopoles but also less exotics particles let's say like leptons or Hudgens. It has two kinds of

00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:17.000
technologies one is magnetic monopole traps, where. Thanks to these methods you can encapsulate the magnet on upon, and also nuclear track detectors and without this kind of plastic plates, which are placed around on other all on the show covering the

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:26.000
walls of the tavern. And when a hygienist in particular post with Elise damage that you can lay their websites and subtract.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:44.000
So, with this with this Victor, they have already released many very interesting results. One would be for Diane's is the first search that has reasons for this kind of particles, but also for magnetic monopoles easy compared here the reeds of Medallia

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:58.000
compared to what we have in Atlanta. So, this is a TV results in others but even if you compare it to the 15 TV. Mother has a much better rates of high masses, that's a really high doses.

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:03.000
Yeah. So, so far is the leading one in. In my method.

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:08.000
And then we have nearly one, which targets.

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:16.000
Military particles in their community with masses of the of the of the order of of the team.

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:32.000
So these one will also be underground. The idea is to place it a bit above the CMS govern. So the has this has two advantages. One is that it's already shielded from cosmetics, because it's still under now, and the other is that because there's some.

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:43.000
There's a path of broke between the induction point, and the detector it's also partly partly shielded from from from the collision.

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:55.000
It will be built up some deliverables, with the empties. And so there is that this is military spectacles iron eyes simulator so they can be detected.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:06.000
There was prototype built also in 2018 and to say that in the 18. And with that they were able to confirm the background expectations, you can see here.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:14.000
An example of a very nice agreement between the, the simulations and, and data.

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:29.000
And now, the idea is that for four to 400 to 500 for around three, there's going to be an upgrade, and there are two kinds of the factors. One is the data protector, that you can see here, it's made of several plastics and deliverables, which are same,

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000
but very long three meters long.

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:47.000
And for these ones because technology is similar to the prototype, the background estimation is already validated with the demonstrated demonstrated. And then there's another kind of the vectors which are the slack detectors, they are also simulators

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.000
that they come in planes.

00:52:49.000 --> 00:53:03.000
They have four planes that will be stuck in between these other robots. And this will help with background protection, and he also increases the reach for heavier and principles.

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:21.000
So combining the sensitivity of middle American was was complicated because they kind of different models. So here I'm showing the prospects for me tax particles I've also gone, and mentioned of it.

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:41.000
So I think I'm trying to read all this but you can see here how Milliken is very, so you can see in read the the sensitivity that they already raised with the demonstrator in 2013 data, and the prospects, with the new detector to be to be billed for one

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.000
three. Thank you.

00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:56.000
So you can compare the two options that I mentioned so one is the only Test Lab detectors, or the bar detectors. So you can see the recommendation of both is going to increase the sensitivity, a lot.

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:59.000
I also wanted to compare it to map.

00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:14.000
And also I didn't find any plot that contain both that here you can see more or less how. Even if map is a forward detector, it can also have access to a similar kind of space than the new one.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:32.000
And then just to finish, I just wanted to mention this which is not actually Elysee but it's for FCC, as this adapter detector I actually don't know how to pronounce it so if someone in the audience knows, just let me know.

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:46.000
Yeah. So, here the idea is that for a sec the governance, for the directors are going to be quite much larger than the detectors themselves. So there will be some space between the inflection point, and the walls of the government.

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:56.000
And the idea is to instrument of the ones, and so that you can also have protected for this.

00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Yeah, so the I guess to do this with our pieces. There will be two layers for dining, and then for external use for, do the tracking and the construction and other good thing is that is for buying so you have this one fortunately longer covered.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:42.000
And, and it can also be related to the main detector because they are very close, and hearing this product and see the prospects, and how these.

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.000
So that's everything I had.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:54.000
Yeah, just as a conclusion, there's really a lot of new projects, aiming to the deadline with particles inventory or heightened enough to do even beyond.

00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:01.000
There are many ideas, and many of them, as we've seen are complimentary in a way, or in another.

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:15.000
So yeah, there's, there's lots of opportunities to expand the coverage and parameter space that, that we are able to reach confirming that actors, and also maybe thinking about about the future sec.

00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:37.000
And now that it's still to be designed we will be amazed at is, is this the the physics program will be already included in as part of the program in the main detectors, or if, if we can maybe reuse some of other sectors and and include the main physics

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:40.000
program from that again.

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.000
Yeah, so that's it for me.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:49.000
Thank you very much this very comprehensive talk me that's really great.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:57:00.000
Yes, okay. So, as I said, we'll have the discussion, just a second but I want to get the chance to have some specific questions about Emma's talk before we go into the internal discussion.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:09.000
Was there anyone who wants to ask a specific question about what was proposed in the transverse direction.

00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:17.000
Okay, I had just quite done one for Methuselah.

00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:23.000
What kind of spatial resolution do we expect for these kind of tracking layers.

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:34.000
If any because I guess you have like some directional ability but I, it's not clear to me like, whether it's like a one meter spatial resolution or something like that.

00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:47.000
Timing I can tell you it's more of a nanosecond and maybe half a second is spatial resolution I can remember on the top of my head but it's more on the order of centimeters.

00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:51.000
Okay, even over this hundred meter.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:59.000
Yeah, cuz we have this for. Secondly, they're separated by one meter, and then extra ones.

00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:15.000
Okay, cool. And then secondly, just to curiosity about when you mentioned the new this, you mentioned about actually when you had your comparison of all of the different possible options in the transverse direction you you highlighted that Anubis would

00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.000
be able to speak to Atlas.

00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:32.000
But the other ones this was a bit under study but I was just curious, specifically what you meant by that. So does that mean that like, I need to be plugged in say to the Atlas trigger system or would you be able to match event specifically between a

00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:47.000
miss an Atlas. Is that what you're suggesting maybe someone from my knowledge can can answer, better than me maybe I can tell you what. The idea was for my first law, which would be from others have to I have to act as a two year for Atlanta so whenever

00:58:47.000 --> 00:59:01.000
something that you see as interesting, you send the warning to Atlas and then they can store the last and transcriptions. So you can try to match.

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:07.000
Both events for movies, maybe someone from the collaboration can answer, better.

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:10.000
But I guess it's something similar.

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:19.000
Yeah, I mean that's my guess as well but like so what's the main limitation because it sounds like this would be super useful. Right. And if we can do it and we should do it.

00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:29.000
But it's the problem that like the distance of 200 meters is just too far. Yeah, exactly. The limitation is the latency for the trigger.

00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:41.000
So how many bass crossings Can you save before Methuselah gives you the triggers to tell you that you have to start them.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:48.000
Okay, and then Louie Louie Did you ask for a little bit if they will connect up with us. I did Yes, they will.

00:59:48.000 --> 01:00:03.000
There is even some some cases that minimal case studies that they have only one lane and Atlas, was the one place to shop for example and that's possible path but then you need structure from Africa.

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:08.000
So, yeah, they will they will come up with that quite strong.

01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:24.000
I guess could xB as well, since it's very much closer than this tool so I can't imagine that would be a big invitation if a new business can do it, then surely critics became for me there are other constraints that so yeah the last that I saw is that

01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:36.000
it's understanding but I guess it's much easier than for Methuselah, I don't know if there's someone from the collaboration, who can comment.

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:49.000
Okay, I guess, they'll have the opportunity to other other questions on the specifics of the transfer so if not we can start going into the general discussion.

01:00:49.000 --> 01:01:09.000
Okay, feel free to raise your hands or post to mass most say thank you, again, both to to Mr and Carl for these really nice talks on these two kind of complimentary directions for for these dedicated detectors it's really nice to see that is really quite

01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:16.000
a zoo of possible possible options that are being proposed that cover quite a lot of space.

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:23.000
And I wanted to start by asking, Can in general.

01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:28.000
I guess maybe talking a little bit about the overlap so for example

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:45.000
fazer and s&d, just to take the example like that. If I understood correctly then they are currently more or less in, in the same place, but they seem to targets and quite different models, so this, I guess this is just in the end, just to do with it

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.000
detected design.

01:01:46.000 --> 01:02:04.000
design. Is that right, or other other differences that explain why they're talking different models or is that just how the physics cases be built.

01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:18.000
The main face of detective was designed primarily for us along with particle detector. And then some like this had faith in you as an additional component on it, I would say facing new is somewhat quite similar and competitive.

01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:25.000
It was s&d it is there really competitors beginning difference would be the big ones.

01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:36.000
They do very similar things, but phase of the main body of fazer is really much more dedicated, along with past case, than, for example.

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:48.000
But, for example, since I guess, both has some sensitivity both along with particles and neutrinos I guess the question is, is there room for both to exist.

01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:56.000
I mean, obviously, if we had unlimited funding and unlimited resources and the answer would be yes but like is.

01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:58.000
So in any case, though the approval.

01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:14.000
Okay. I think you're one one important thing is that what is really happening, or s&m be, is it doesn't have a decay, all you want, like a laser. It doesn't have a magnet, either.

01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:31.000
So it's the focus of the emphasis really different, and then the, the new physics. They discussed. Most these by scattering Catholic experiment, not so much like it talks about from that.

01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:36.000
The things you have in common is in a way

01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:49.000
where maybe SD as an actress August fibers a bit more passive, but they're, they're sufficiently different.

01:03:49.000 --> 01:04:00.000
And if you're saying they think the same space. Yes, but, you know, they are one kilometer away from each other for different sides of the, of the way.

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:16.000
But yeah, okay, that's my one difference for neutrino physics is that even though SMG is just a few minute radians, I think it does have higher relative flux of of the town neutrino compared with being zero degree.

01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:21.000
Yeah, so I should add that, I mean, so the analogy is of access.

01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:40.000
So phase one is almost missed. And so, the abilities of access, just to catch more of that, like, what's coming from the town for example and that that will be remedies, to a large extent with phase two when when you have

01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:46.000
that will get much of that too but I do have a complimentary except

01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:49.000
for the three.

01:04:49.000 --> 01:05:04.000
Okay, and has a is, do you want to make it an intervention on on this topic or was it something. No, no, so it the topics we're going to go for it. No, that's fine, just to, So I'll continue a little bit more on this on this question of, of overlap because

01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:18.000
for example like there's maybe a similar question about Miller canon for motor but in, because if I understood they're both looking for these new charged particles one this in the forward direction one isn't the transverse do maybe provocative question

01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:28.000
again like to do both needs to be done to have a complimentary enough that we need both to be realized.

01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:33.000
Or to jump in again with discussing.

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.000
Other revolve. So, for Mosley's morning like what Yes.

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:51.000
Now I was going to go for a higher rate. And it's like the two groups Milliken and footballs that are the same.

01:05:51.000 --> 01:06:07.000
So this, this is almost hundred percent overlapping, people are listening to this. And it is indeed a possible question that instead of having Milliken at the place where it is now, or in addition to which we would promote over their different budgets.

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:11.000
But that is correct. So, The discussion which is still ongoing.

01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:17.000
At the moment, we would you would say we reserve a slob the

01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:19.000
mosaic or direction.

01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:25.000
And there are advantages for sitting before the right one is great.

01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.000
But the other is the higher masters, make compromise.

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:36.000
But it's an ongoing discussion, it's a valid question, which at the moment we will not ask.

01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:54.000
I think if you can spot sensitivity coverage with Brad three, and then see if it's better to optimize for this SDS if it happens, or we stay in the Central Park effective for run through

01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:01.000
that but it's a great question just yet. And then it will depend on the next.

01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:16.000
Yeah, cuz I suppose what will, what will see in the next few years is maybe this this quite large field of proposals will undergo some thinning impacts and merging and we end up with, hopefully a set of complementary detectors actually end up being realized

01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:18.000
for real.

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:29.000
And, I mean, it sounds like you're, you're quite keyed into this discussion and kind of thinking maybe in the HTC but I guess this these kind of decisions will need to be happening in the next few years.

01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:30.000
Right.

01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:48.000
Right, absolutely. I mean, right now, I would say like three years ago we did the low. Yes, yes. For example, really came up to it snowballs. Mostly, and now you see there is a community with ideas, and this is the first order of ideas what you get now.

01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:52.000
And I think then it will evolve.

01:07:52.000 --> 01:08:03.000
And of course, on the other side, one has to discuss whether such a hole is feasibility, because it's not for free, and pay, developing and I don't know if

01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:14.000
And I don't know if I can add, I mean, interesting things here. But back to what I was saying, I mean, first of all, I think that the reason you see this kind of.

01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:28.000
In some cases, maybe overlapping detective concepts at the moment or is that, you know, we don't know that's the first of those if it does this say of experiments, post for that, but then obviously you have existing and other presenters to use existing

01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:38.000
infrastructure so they think it will depend on the law on whether efficacy is likely to go ahead and that I think when when we know that more it will sort of narrow things down.

01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:53.000
I think also for the IPF as you were saying, you know, as I did my talk, the timeline is tight. Everybody gets something in for taking data towards the end of and for them really need to decide to start work on CD CDs and CDs.

01:08:53.000 --> 01:09:08.000
In the near future. So, yeah, as I said, this game is no mass and some somewhere, quite quickly developed, but there's a lot of studies being done but a lot of work still needs to be done and we want to have something on that timeframe that would also

01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:13.000
again as we did those studies you need more realistic assumptions.

01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:19.000
Then things may drop in.

01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:38.000
If we can think out of the box about about town neutrino physics, sir. There's location and 120 meters downstream in front of the tan absorbed with a taxi.

01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:52.000
A new, and one wondered about something putting a neutrino detector there however one can't put emotions there because it's totally inaccessible. So the question is, and as question related to experiment.

01:09:52.000 --> 01:10:05.000
If one could make an electronic version of emotions in other words, a highly segmented pixel detector, maybe with pixel planes in every, every millimeter or so with files in between.

01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:19.000
That's electronic and bad hard and can live there for a year at a time, then you could do neutrino physics, and because you're 14 to close and face a new you have 16 times and solid angle per square centimeter.

01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:29.000
So it's something to think about and I don't know anybody is thinking about detecting developing a pixel like electronic emotion resolution of emotion, but with pixels that the red heart.

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:41.000
I mean that would be an interesting idea. I think it's something like that. I'll accept that but I guess it's something like that with Red Hat pixel type detectors that scale would be quite expensive.

01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:55.000
Yeah, it would be expensive. But if you, if you have 10 million, you couldn't do quite a bit 10 million pixels, I guess I don't know so my, there is actually thinking about it.

01:10:55.000 --> 01:11:15.000
Because the the detector call mentioned, the advanced s&p in the FPS would not be for would not be for seems to be taken with without some I'm sad, we think, probably the meal race is gonna be too high.

01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:27.000
Anyway, there and there may be a sweeping magnitude of that can help.

01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:43.000
And then, by essentially putting 20 meter what you're mentioning although this size arms are a bit difficult to use for other reasons but anyway, that's that's the people there are.

01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:51.000
And I would say only thinking about it because right now they were busy for the last few years just installing a detector in the tunnel.

01:11:51.000 --> 01:12:09.000
Which to me I can also and also as of yesterday and if you look carefully at my pasta shoulder though I didn't mention it. There's actually two detectors labeled on that forward, and a foreign near, so that was that I didn't need to detectors the old

01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:24.000
one being at the FF and the new one being I forget exactly where but somewhere around the distance I think you're you're you're mentioned maybe a 50 meters from the IP, and in some particular place I don't remember exactly where I was covering the morphology

01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:40.000
physics okay I mentioned that the near the closer to Allah, think they will profess them overlap with LHCV for the near one, two to make a cross reference measurements for the for the charm.

01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:56.000
That's got where where it's, it's off axis. Yeah, the, the initial cost of the phase and near near detector was at zero degrees, where you you.

01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:09.000
If you go to if you go to a few major agents, then you go behind all the ion of the quadruples in diapers, which is 50 meters of I am so, so yeah that that's that's location.

01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:29.000
That is not the same as the face or near idea, which was zero degrees. We don't have any absorber basically until you get to, because it's just shape being piped and that's where that's where the zero degree color images are right.

01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:44.000
Okay, maybe, since since we only have them to time, maybe it's a good time to, to ask the questions I saw that has a you had a hand up some of you that's good yeah I know where it's not interrupt your discussions.

01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:57.000
So now I what I wanted to ask maybe he's slightly related to your point, but from the signal physics perspective because so far. We are probably trying to break some sort of mathematical theory to show many many different ways to show number to see you

01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:13.000
know so we see no signal so we exclude, but we are not really discussing, as much as I will like sickness so if we do have a dark for dawn, a light scalar of 15 gb that the case where you got our like structure and so on.

01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:30.000
How would each of these experiments not only discover it go running I get the Nobel Prize, but say yeah this is a guy that addresses PC does penguins penguins property gays couples to meals to photos to douse to do electrons to be quotes to see to the

01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:46.000
case into battle of kn so i i don't know different considerations that are being done so it both discovery scenario, comparing the capabilities of these elements so I don't know for instance if I mean, I know the motto so you can say well if a vt K, if

01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:53.000
you get into vek to me on see we'll see a lot of his predecessors model spread in the, in the different layers.

01:14:53.000 --> 01:15:09.000
But I don't know how much this has been done I mean I'm also part of a sort of a Mia culpa. I don't know how much has been done really terms of identifying and saying, you know, face that will see Dallas and do ABC with whichever experiment, we're able

01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:24.000
to the characterization of the scene. I mean, of course, we want to go with something and that's that's the race. But once we get there. Can we be in a position where we say, there seems to be passing a 16 GV, but we don't really know what to teach and

01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:38.000
then we need to make another round of experiments, or on you know we maybe without repurposing the director selling more material to, because we know the signal why we cannot characterize.

01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:55.000
So I mean I don't know a quick example would be if you have a two or three gv lights scalar. It was a mostly to Kenyans, He was mostly be broadly lost the nettles and CMS, but other know if you would say yeah Decatur okay so they get to the medicines.

01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:06.000
If you cut the possibility to discriminate both of them, you know, just experiment so honestly I have no clue. And but also I see no much public workshop in there.

01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:22.000
I mean, How would this work, how would I say okay, there's something here, eternal scalar has the muscles, five GB plus minus, Cedar Point one plus minus two GB, so how will we track information from from footage.

01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:29.000
So yeah, that was my point but maybe top and for these guys.

01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:41.000
I mean, I think it's a very good thing to bring up because we we often kind of present the sensitivity in terms of limits. But, as you say, it will kind of be a very annoying scenario if we say there is, you know, we've discovered something but we have

01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:54.000
no idea what it is and then we have to wait another 50 years before we maybe not 50 years but we have to wait a long period of time before we can characterize it so maybe I guess we can bounce this question back to the experts in the room if this is something

01:16:54.000 --> 01:17:06.000
that's really being thought about within the proposed collaborations.

01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:22.000
Well, can I come in here, imagine something a massive 15 gb, you don't know where it is right but this is dark photon. It basically the case, as I understand the same way as E plus c minus annihilation event to gamma star massive 15 gb, so you can compare

01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:32.000
the decades with that. If it's a heavy neutral left arm, then it will have a leading Milan or leading electron or even tower depending on the flavor of have a neutral laptop.

01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:48.000
So if you can identify those things. On the other hand if it's a if it's a Higgs and it will Decay Primer primarily to BB bar, and then a little bit to cc bar and so on so but if you have a few dozen events, and you can compare the different decay modes,

01:17:48.000 --> 01:18:06.000
then you can distinguish a dark Higgs or dark photon, having electron, or accelerate particle, gamma, gamma gamma, and sometimes the gallery plus or minus.

01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:16.000
decay modes. And if you if you get a few dozen candidates, you know with no background, hopefully, then, then you can do that now. I say no background.

01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:27.000
Okay, so, you know, ideally a 15 GV thing decaying will decay too many particles not normally just depressing minus one view pairs, and then you have a vertex.

01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:41.000
And here, keeping us to see if you have backgrounds from neutron interactions make you know on nuclear and stuff like that, which a vacuum decay volume eliminates those things.

01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:50.000
So yeah, but if you have one or two or three of us, then it's gonna be hard to see what it is, but if you have a few dozen then.

01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:55.000
Yeah, I think we can distinguish them.

01:18:55.000 --> 01:19:10.000
Yes, I mean, and also, more generally I think we'd be in the, in the very enviable position of, of having a discovery on our hands and having a plan that we need to for me to qualify it further and better, and.

01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:20.000
Okay, I think no one would complain to be in that position to be fair, even if even if more work will be required to, you know, to understand more in more detail exactly what the properties of this object would be.

01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:27.000
Now, now has a was that you have your hand up for a further question or is it not.

01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:30.000
So,

01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:32.000
you know, this is very, Very good point.

01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:41.000
And I'm talking about, about the kind of results to expect from these attackers I wanted to bring up maybe the, the question of all of these proposals.

01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:54.000
Well, most of them have, let's say, prototypes or kind of beaters, you know the Codex beta pro new business user demo and kind of, I was kind of inspired by the fact that there's already like a very impressive physics result potentially coming out of

01:19:54.000 --> 01:20:12.000
phase A new where. Now we have what seems to be evidence of colliding neutrinos. So, do, do we expect the, the first physics that we get from the current round of demonstrators and kind of first pass is that these detectors will already be able to beat

01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:15.000
the Atlas and CMS limits for certain models.

01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:21.000
I guess it's a question for the sector experts directly.

01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:28.000
We have to wait until I'm kind of further down the line for them to become competitive with Atlas and CMS.

01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:34.000
I'm not sure whether I can comment on it without the CMS but certainly my memory is that

01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:45.000
there are certainly some of the models were some of the face to face. There was a basic certain face over there so these are the models were even with the date of this year.

01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:47.000
What could break new ground.

01:20:47.000 --> 01:21:01.000
But obviously we're not exploring as much as there's the Full Face Face but there are certain areas that even with issues data will be sensitive areas so I think already with small amount of data in some of the experiments.

01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:19.000
This is not for the Pro, whatever this is for the full face of cyber, because I was thinking I mean, I hadn't mind as well for like for example pro Numis or Codex to that, because the so far outside of the, of the kind of range that Atlas the CMS are

01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:32.000
constrained by that I could imagine that even having, you know, even with a small solid angle even with a prototype, just having even a few, you know, a small amount of data from from run three was already allow you to extend the lifetime reach considering

01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:39.000
that with the kind of full dataset were expecting to get very near. well not not too far from the BBN limit.

01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:51.000
So I think this is already very exciting but, like, maybe we can really expect some competitive physics to be coming out, even if the data we're taking this year.

01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:57.000
Okay, this is just my guess so be nice to hear it from

01:21:57.000 --> 01:21:59.000
a little absorber.

01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:03.000
For this first of all, so there will be a lot of background from Israel.

01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:08.000
And that's actually the the point of doing this thing.

01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:22.000
Being. How could they get rich, because I think that would be a huge signal stating, which is really demonstrate the mobile application that will not be ignored.

01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:44.000
But I think that I don't know maybe somebody from colleagues be directly with that can be the chances are very high speed there is really something out and after all it is, is a new regime you're looking at five meters away yourself

01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:45.000
for the other slides, like Facebook already mentioned.

01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:53.000
On the other slide, like, we already mentioned. Also the Milliken experiments.

01:22:53.000 --> 01:23:00.000
There, the first year's data will be a better data set than what we had before, for example for Milliken.

01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:16.000
We had already, you want limits coming out there because the, the CMS analysts will be doing from the demonstrator and this detective will be bigger, and the probably the amount of data much about the same as what we collected.

01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:19.000
To do this first day but also that will be better.

01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:36.000
But when the paper will come out with no positive question I think we take the data that year and the others are also knew the factors that may take some moments which will not be likely the first week to meet you said, different data sets in the other

01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:57.000
the factors could lead to things which were not observable by the by the central detractors but it wasn't it's been, of course, not yet found it to be knows but the electronic geometry knows that it will be samples of a few hundred defense.

01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:01.000
Of course,

01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:12.000
maybe to compliment from the message side, I don't think we have any real study time to answer this question, but I would guess.

01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:30.000
I mean just having one module the salad angle is going to be so small that unless the LP is deliberately posted and the VK is very animated I think it would be even be hard to be able to reconstruct all tracks coming from dedicate some, I don't know.

01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:43.000
I don't think we'd have studies but I think it's really like okay fair enough, important not to get too overexcited vendor will have to be patient.

01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:58.000
Okay. And I think we have five minutes left so maybe just in the last five minutes and this is anyone who wants to bring up a particular topic and if so, then please, please shout but I really liked this, this idea of bringing up kind of okay what do

01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:03.000
we do with. If there is FCC EOHH what do we do with it.

01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:12.000
And I personally had never come across this hacker idea before but I think it's it's really great to see that there are people already thinking about this.

01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:18.000
I mean just one curiosity they had is this idea of kind of instruments. The.

01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:24.000
The cabin is something that we couldn't possibly do already for the high Lumiere lately.

01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:40.000
Is it because I guess it, you know, it's not new technologies involved, it's just okay a lot of a lot of kind of piling the cabin with with instrumented material but I guess you know, comparing it to the budgets of some of the things we're talking about.

01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:51.000
Wouldn't it be possible to already do this sooner than sec know where you are really thinking about that right because Medallia, for example is instrumental relatively common.

01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:59.000
And that's already working, and I think I'm obviously not that far away from that concept as well.

01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:09.000
I think it's a good point on this case is that the government is not smarter than the texture so you, it's like you're extending the detector by real amount.

01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:24.000
It's not just extending it by a few meters by one meter but by, maybe I don't know, five or six meters from the layer, and the latest layer of protection.

01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:25.000
Yeah.

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:37.000
I don't know if we have more space in the Atlas government, for example, to instrument, all the world's know that I think probably this would cause some difficulties with them.

01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:50.000
Arguing with the, the Atlas people but I think the point you raised in your talking about that like the idea of already kind of trying to build some of these ideas in from the conception will make it much easier because in in a lot of cases here where

01:26:50.000 --> 01:27:00.000
they're trying to retrofit sensitivity to LPs whereas it would be much easier if we'd have known in advance. So, this is something of course we need to bear in mind.

01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:18.000
Very famous Chief, the main detective for the sec, sec not just the cotton balls and stuff. Free anything out of there, maybe not enough people, the SEC looking at how we can really the main detective excellent.

01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:33.000
That's an excellent point right we always say that CMS notice we're not designed for a little piece so we have to think creatively to be sensitive to them but I guess the FCC detectors, you know if they realized do allow us to correct for that, that blind

01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:37.000
spot that we built in by accident feel that you see the detectors.

01:27:37.000 --> 01:27:42.000
There's always going to be balanced with the name is kind of

01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.000
heavily.

01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:59.000
Yeah but equally this time around we don't have necessarily a strong reason to believe that Susie would be around the corner. This is maybe something that could occupy a higher proportion of our collective brain cycles.

01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:06.000
I mean I think I'm preaching to the converted here, of course, but it's it's something to bear in mind.

01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:13.000
Maybe I can jump in for a minute to just to say that in my talk at the FCC week, tomorrow.

01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:31.000
One of my points for will be that, you know, let's start making these general purpose detectors with LPs in mind from the start. And this, I mean, of course this is a point that has come up before but I'll, I'll make it again.

01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:43.000
Okay, so I think we're coming to the end of the time we have available for this discussion but I think we do still have time for any other questions that anyone might have.

01:28:43.000 --> 01:29:01.000
Okay. In that case, thank you everyone for what I think was a really useful session and productive discussion afterwards, as, as was mentioned, we do have also some lightning round talks on specific detectors and developments have happened in the last

01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:05.000
six months so do you also check out those and.

01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:11.000
Okay, I think, in that case we can end this session on time, and I'll share.

01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:16.000
And we can take a break, that was scheduled for.

01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:32.000
Let me just see 15 minutes 15.