13:43:23 And here you can see one slide which is has a wolf within this roadmap evaluation.
13:43:31 That we have currently we have so to say 6 peg, European flagship, research infrastructure in all these topics of high energy universe and dike universe, which is high energy, NGOs, high energy cosmic rays, gamma rays, gravitational waves.
13:43:51 And also in between the properties where the next large scale experiment will be most probably legend. And for type meta it is a construction of Darwin or send the combination to SETI and in parallel.
13:44:05 Also was developments on the next generation. I go next. And my last slide is so to say, here and excerpt from the roadmap updates, which you will see in in the full view in as I said in a couple of weeks.
13:44:24 So we have here. These are 3 topics, recommendations for 3 topics. First one is, And, recommendations you can lead here.
13:44:36 It is now online. It's a presentation here. Second one for Action,s and other non-vim dyke matter and this is important for this topic also.
13:44:48 A recommendation from our pick for central infrastructure, mainly here on the cooperation. Of the European Underground Laboratories.
13:44:59 And with this, I want to, wish you a good luck and success for this workshop and all your future initiatives.
13:45:08 And in particular, we as we really think for these initiatives which is a very successful role model.
13:45:19 And all the best forces workshop and in the future. Thank you very much.
13:45:34 Thank you very much, Andreas. Any questions for Andreas? There.
13:45:43 Okay.
13:45:45 Good luck.
13:46:24 Anyway, let me. Okay. Okay.
13:46:32 No, yes, no, yes.
13:46:29 Can you hear me also online? Yes, I hope Oh yes, okay, good. So. My name is Martha Sharelli.
13:46:41 I'm one of the organizers, with Federica, and I'm going to talk to you about the one of the 3 missions, one of the 3 main things that we wanted to do with this initiative, one of the 3 missions, one of the 3 main things that we wanted to do with this initiative, which is building a website that we wanted to do with this initiative, which is building a website which is
13:46:53 still with this initiative which is building a website which is still in a very very preliminary shape and so you are actually very welcome to give us feel like that's the purpose of today.
13:47:01 So the idea was to build a place where we could collect and then find information, yes, on everything that concerns that matter.
13:47:14 So. Clearly that's quite ambitious and we want to build a sort of dark matter hub where people in the field and outside the field can go and get updated information if possible.
13:47:27 We have both these great URL, which is idmu.org, but if you go there, it's a homemade version which is now a bit updated and instead that the new version is currently in this beta form.
13:47:41 There. NECK. client.co.uk.
13:47:45 IGN in case you want to play with it while we talk or this afternoon in the next few days.
13:47:49 In the long run, meaning in a few days or weeks, then the better version will be accessible under I. Org.
13:47:57 And, and that will be the final URL. By the way, if you have not been fast enough, this is a Sligo link so you can go there and give feedback or ask questions.
13:48:08 At any time. So the website that is designed by us, the organizers, so we decided more or less what's going to be in it, but of course we are open to any suggestions.
13:48:19 And it's an edit and maintained by the curators as we call them. We'll get back to that later.
13:48:24 But it's important to say that actually input from everyone that is very welcoming and such an essential because otherwise we just focus on our own interests and then It's made basically with the word simple WordPress set up with some dedicated plugins.
13:48:42 So let's go to the basic. So if you type the URL. You land in a page like this, which is a evocative dark matter.
13:48:51 There are a few images that That's fine. So basically if you scroll down, you have some information about IDMU who we are and what we are trying to do.
13:49:01 And then you have a section which is about events, news and events. So for instance, this one is the fact that we are having this meeting here today and the other things are about past events.
13:49:12 And if you scroll down again, there is a place where there there will be a feed on recent parameter papers automatically fished from the archival so everything concerning that matter will be there.
13:49:25 And it's not fully ready. Yet, but if it works, it might be a good landing point, you go there in the morning, see how many papers on that matter, probably 200 and You get depressed, the all excited.
13:49:39 Yeah, sure, sure, you should. They feed them. Okay, so you ask this to Katharina who's going to speak like later because
13:49:48 Yes. I mean, I can tell you how it works, but, it's. this is a script that is the we've inherited.
13:50:00 So it's, me and Marty. That played with it. He is one of the honorary creators.
13:50:04 I don't know if you know the, It's called the living review of machine learning.
13:50:09 It's a GitHub website. And there is a site that is such, there's a little script there that parses an API that inspire us so this is just on user interface where you can get all the information from the database.
13:50:22 From his fire, you put a keyword in there. And then you damp all the information on a text file, text file gets parsed and turn it on HTML and that's what's going to go in there.
13:50:37 So I can show you the implementation. The only thing that I couldn't make work in this last week because Matt was here.
13:50:41 Visiting us on Friday is the the crown job to make it happen every every day. Like parsing it.
13:50:49 Every day. There's a lot of other ways to do this. This was the quickest thing because the But we can chat about the details if you like later.
13:51:06 Okay. Yeah, another question? No. Yeah.
13:51:11 30.
13:51:18 Okay, so maybe with that.
13:51:15 So Zoom cannot hear the questions if you can repeat. In the microphone.
13:51:22 That's something quite useful at Slack. There was a way I signed up and I get great email.
13:51:28 I don't read the archive myself anymore. It tells me what papers to read exactly like this.
13:51:32 And it just does it weekly. So it might be simpler to. Not do it daily just as a suggestion.
13:51:42 Let's see.
13:51:41 I'm not, I think it's nice. And NASA IDS has that and used to have an RSS feed, but now they only do the emails and we try to doing.
13:51:50 I think Maybe that's what is used. Anyway, any other solutions that you want to, we might want to suggest because if they stop working, then we need something else.
13:52:04 Right.
13:51:58 The Twitter used to work then it stopped working. So thanks. At all. Yeah.
13:52:07 Okay, so let's move on to the bottom part is about the credits of the funding edges and so on.
13:52:14 Okay, so next. Next, okay, so let's, look, have a look at the current contents of the website.
13:52:22 This is the banner on top. I'm not going to discuss all of it, but just the most important parts.
13:52:26 So about us, okay, organizers, proponents and the initial story and then the curators. So who are the curators?
13:52:33 Basically a number of people, young people who are listed here that over the couple the last couple of years have helped us within the website and filling it with content.
13:52:44 The tables, lists of experiments that you will see later are essentially curated by this large group of rather large group of people.
13:52:54 Going to the basics, these are interns or young starting PhD students who were assigned one of the tasks of filling one of these tables and list of experiments and they did a great job in doing that.
13:53:07 And the feeling is that they learned that a lot. So they have the vision of the field there or that particular thing.
13:53:12 Yeah, which is a great. So that's useful for them and it's of course very useful for us as well.
13:53:19 They come from different communities, different countries, different institutions. The institution of us, the creators. They can also come from elsewhere.
13:53:27 The thing I wanted to add is that of course we welcome a new curators because we have to maintain the tables which are already there, polish them and maintain them.
13:53:38 And then we want to build new ones. And it's really a great way to start in the field if you are a master student or a young English student.
13:53:47 We found it very So, don't hesitate if you have a student or you are a student contact as there is a link in the contact form.
13:53:57 Okay, then, the second item is this project and communities and this is just essentially a list for the moment is the beginning but at least of Projects, centres, that are related to that matter.
13:54:10 For instance, the dark matter LHC working group or the physics beyond colliders or you kept so the list will grow for sure this is just the beginning.
13:54:18 And again if you have input, if you know of something we should side there, it's not there.
13:54:23 Let us know. And then let's get to the most, say the most substantial, content of the website, which are these lists and tables of experiments.
13:54:37 Intended in a broad sense. So we have a list of experiments. A 4, drug detection, indirect detection, collide, accelerator, wave like amatrice parents and so on and so forth and also in America simulations.
13:54:49 I show you the indirect detection table just because it's one of those. And, and the others, you can have a look yourself or check them out later.
13:54:59 So the table essentially presents a second in the following way. It's a big table with a lot of rows and several columns.
13:55:09 For all the different experiments concerning indirect detection, this specific case, past the present and future.
13:55:15 For instance, here you have for a completed experiment like Amelia, you have these different columns that tell you the name of the experiment, the link to the homepage, where the experiment is or was the type of experiment.
13:55:29 So in this case, which species of cosmic rays detects start year and year and the range of energies at which it was sensitive.
13:55:36 And then we put the link to the technical design report where you can have all the detail information about this.
13:55:42 The idea is that you want some quick entry to the characteristic environment. You go here and you get the point.
13:55:50 For running experiment like Lazo, exactly the same thing except they just start the envy or something.
13:55:56 And for future experiments, so like I'm doing exactly the same thing. With the that it's a future experiment.
13:56:06 Right, so it's something very basic, but as far as we are aware, there there is nothing similar on the web or in the literature.
13:56:13 So it might be a useful addition.
13:56:17 You have a lot of several filtering and ranking tools. So for all the columns that I show. Showed that you can do searches and filtering so suppose that you want to have all the experiments that are sensitive in the range 2 GV 2 7 GV for some reason.
13:56:36 You know the species. Well you put that here. And you get exactly the filtering of the few experiments which are sensitive there.
13:56:43 And the same thing for all the other. Or the other parameters. Or it's not working. Absolutely perfectly now we have to fix some things but we need to be working that's that's the purpose.
13:56:56 So for the the other tables, let me show you, this I will leave it here for a minute so that you can have a look.
13:57:03 So these are the main tables concerning the the kinds of experiments, where we have lists of experiments here.
13:57:11 So the direct detection in direct detection, wave lights, action action like particle experiments. And that the numerical simulations.
13:57:19 These are the fields that we are currently featuring in these tables. I've seen for instance the indirect detection one.
13:57:29 We could let us know even your different expertise if this is What should be there? And if you think that something is useless, among these fields or some more feeds that should be added.
13:57:42 And if you want other tables, so other. Features there. Let me post for a second to have a It's sort of feedback.
13:57:52 There is any.
13:57:55 Thanks for the people who are inserting it in, that's appreciated.
13:58:00 I mean, this depends a bit on what one wants to put, but I'm saying something which is coming.
13:58:06 It's interesting to me. So to have also one table, which is for cosmology. Like for instance, It's not the same thing, I understand.
13:58:25 You should go there. Yes, that's I would find, yes.
13:58:33 So I think that this is a very good initiative and I wanted to just understand these main publications. So in terms of importance or in terms of timescale. No, it's actually not the main publications. So in terms of importance or in terms of timescale?
13:58:48 No, it's in which one, and in direct detection. Yes, for example.
13:58:52 Yeah, so for example, in the, detection, we put just the TDR. So no results, only no result papers.
13:58:57 Only the technical. For direct detection. To talk about that since there are many more lines and you can point to a specific paper for the results on one certain run.
13:59:08 This is what Okay. The first word, there is, No, because I think that I find that when we give you know more overview talks like also having the information where you have the most recently seen the 6 months publications from each result from each experiment which sometimes is not that easy to find.
13:59:30 I think it is very useful so that like at least you make sure that you're really covering everything that all the different collaboration are doing because they might not be able to review your talk before you give it.
13:59:42 There, sorry, the only selection criteria that we put there is that we selected only applications from the collaborations.
13:59:50 We did not put publications that are related to data. We analyzed by others. So these are, you know, so these are the publications.
13:59:57 So in that sense, these are the main, from the collaborations. Okay, yeah, just to make sure that nobody leaves out the recent results.
14:00:11 Okay, give us feedback whenever you feel like, Slideo, anything? I mean this is clearly our via selection but basic information.
14:00:26 What's the reason of not having main publications for indirect detection? . But that simply that you have too many and that you have also collaborations.
14:00:37 I mean papers by theory and that you have also collaborations, I mean papers by theorists that you have also collaborations, I mean, and that you have also collaborations, I mean, papers by theorists that derives a bounce from different channels and then you would have an endless list to be honest.
14:00:46 I don't see how you could say this is the result from Fermi. Right, so you could have a list of things.
14:00:55 I mean, I'm willing to, Take up some ideas or people. Would like to do some parsing because now we have scripts, they can parse things, they can parse So we could do an experimental run of.
14:01:09 If we do it automate in an automated way do we catch this all? Because doing it by hand I think if it's even if you're talking about working with another brother that is doing a new project for a year.
14:01:20 It's going to take a very long time to do this. So we need something automated if we want it.
14:01:24 I think it's a nice idea. But. I don't know, I'm willing to.
14:01:29 Yeah.
14:01:29 Point people to how to try and how to do it.
14:01:38 Okay. So next, okay, then another set of tables that we have is about the resources. So this is a Mostly about outreach and tools.
14:01:53 So let me show you for instance the outreach table which is actually similar to the ones we have already seen.
14:02:00 It's much simpler of course we have. Works out outreach of different sorts. It can be an article, it can be a comic, it can be a book, a publication or anything else.
14:02:10 The title of course at the link to the source, the author. The languages of format, the language of the year publication and the the length in the sense of how long it takes to read it or how many pages or how long is the video or how long is the audio and so on and so forth.
14:02:27 And we have actually several tables. So one for the general public. Articles and books. One for the general public conference and videos, one specifically for children.
14:02:38 And then for the scientific audience we have articles and books. Conferences videos and conferences videos for an advanced level.
14:02:47 A collection of lectures about that matter. It was a great school in Las Vegas 2 years ago about this and it's all there and so on and so forth.
14:02:54 So here the idea is that Some of us, I mean, the website is, targeted to us, not to the researchers.
14:03:01 Some of us are sometimes struggle to find a good outreach resources to get inspired and to give it out to Yeah, after public and this is what this could help for.
14:03:15 There you were biased, so we have English, French, some Italian, some German. And nothing guys.
14:03:22 If you know any good student that could like to help. And easy.
14:03:31 Okay. And then the last thing I'm going to mention is that there is also a forum and discussion forum which is, going to be discussed by Catalina later and that's a whole other thing.
14:03:45 It's a bigger project on a side. That we have. And that's sort of the project on a side that that we have and that's sort of the first mission of our electoral intent. I guess that's it, right?
14:03:55 Yes, that's the last one.
14:03:57 We're in time. So you have more feedback or questions.
14:04:04 Yeah, let's see.
14:04:08 Okay. Anyone can contribute to the notes that she's posting online.
14:04:17 Yep. I have a nice question. In the experiment searching field. Is the database created from the archive?
14:04:29 What's the? Is the database created from the archive or are you taking the archive and putting their right when you say for instance if you look for I was playing around.
14:04:40 If you look for one experiments there is one link with the archive. It's going back and forth.
14:04:47 So that's why. And so there is one archive and I'm wondering how can you make sure that this is the latest paper from this experiment?
14:04:56 Yes. And so if there is a database that you create with the feed that you are doing with the same field.
14:05:04 Of experiment searching? I know. By those people you mentioned before. So.
14:05:14 By the way, an important disclaimer that I didn't mention. So all of this, as I said at the beginning, is a designed by us and made by the created by the current person but has not been reviewed and not validated by the experiments and we have several disclaimers on the collaborators, corporations at some point if they want should go there and say this is okay for me or you're missing this most
14:05:37 important piece of information there. And we don't want to over all the
14:05:54 Thanks. I had one question and then maybe also a comment. The question is Is in the website also as a sort of repository for data from the various experiments.
14:06:09 Also, okay. That's not the current. We have ambitious plans that might be in the future, but currently it's not within our scope.
14:06:18 You may talk about that. Okay, yeah, yes, It was yeah just well because I also I think there was a I saw a presentation during the conference about a presentation during the conference about a guy now maybe the remember they had this idea of building the conference about a guy now in the conference about, a guy, in the conference about a guy, now, in the remember, name, but they had this idea of building also a dark
14:06:37 matter. H, containing those experimental data, maybe. It could be incorporated also. Yeah.
14:06:40 Yeah, it's in collaboration. We are in touch definitely with the group which is in Munich.
14:06:47 Yes, exactly. So there is no intention to duplicate H. So there are things which are being done on this purpose so there will be.
14:06:56 A link on activities or existing repositories. It's just not finished, but it will be just linked to this because it makes no sense to duplicate.
14:07:05 Air Force and it's a lot of effort to have a database that are positive with data that we are in.
14:07:11 Allows you to access data. It's in for in your reputation the Cosmic Crazy there was a talk this morning mentioning this cosmic redaka basin.
14:07:18 She's Great guys, for me, by many people. We don't want to replicate that.
14:07:25 It would be impossible for us.
14:07:30 So this is a working progress page on the website that is software and tools. It could be that it there's also a We make a data.
14:07:41 Like where do you find the data for a given community? Because I think that the point is.
14:07:45 Different communities will want to store the data in different ways and there's a lot of work going on even with the big funding thoughts behind it to do it properly.
14:07:55 Because you have to be very, very careful about data, privacy, metadata, how you store it and all of this.
14:08:06 So each community will have something that they want to do and they will do it themselves so we link those repositories.
14:08:10 But it's it's probably a good idea to have a the software tools you also have data catalogues or something like that because it's not at the moment it's mixed up in software tools.
14:08:20 So.
14:08:24 And that yeah, Justin very briefly, random idea for maybe another section that might be cool for example.
14:08:31 Sometimes reading also papers about the experiments. There are I found some difficulties to understand more from an engineering perspective.
14:08:44 For example, there are many devices that are common to many experiments. I don't know, photo multiplier tubes or various sensors that are always used in many experiments.
14:08:52 And maybe they are more like manage from hardware people, maybe having a sort of like a donor section about main engineering components of the experiments might be some thing useful and explain how they work.
14:09:09 Yeah, I don't know. It's a random idea. Not that. Okay, so we're already 9 min late, so I will stop here and.
14:09:21 Give the floor to Yeah.
14:09:40 So good afternoon. Everybody. So first of all, I would like to thank the organizations for giving me.
14:09:47 With the next limitation. But as you see, I've been given a rather ambitious task to to provide an overview of the How is the situation in science, concerning, that matter theory?
14:10:06 So. So this is sort of cartoon of the current. Can be called that Matterlas Cape, the Tashimi C, is specially inspired by also the torque of.
14:10:21 Just giving a here to the top conference. So as you see, if you think the I bought the plateau of the that matter.
14:10:30 Currently that's which are current from the market. You may see that today range. An enormous window of mass case going from Thank you to the minus 20 retrovost.
14:10:45 Save around hours of the solar mass. And at the same time, you can span a comparatively.
14:10:54 Range of variation. If he's here, I've been, er, evidently with the, in London, which just is a measure of how strong.
14:11:05 And if this, the parameter candidate will interact with what we call ordinary matter. So and then playing with this truth case you can associate it to play this more game you can find some spot in which we feed our current.
14:11:22 Aeromotive candidates here I put just 2 examples for example what we call. Like, more or less, I was being pointed also in the top, on a scale which ranges, about between some fraction of TV and 100 TV.
14:11:38 And the values of this. Apart from which is around. Or that one but still we can find a class of a viable, the, detectives.
14:11:49 If we lower this, the strength of this secretary, you are coming, by lot of all the software into the, for example.
14:11:58 Catalans of the order of 10 to the minus 12. And even broader class of that matter, Canada, which is typically called the feeble interactive massive pass.
14:12:11 So again, I mean, I've been told that this is to be not a real presentation, but just to give the starter to discussion.
14:12:20 So here I have lighted that in this slide that some poise which in my opinion are worth discussing but of course you might completely disagree with what I'm going to say now and in the following I would be totally fine with this.
14:12:37 But if I try to the exercise of identify some priority for for the present in the future. One that would be definitely which is the most viable.
14:12:48 Terrific interface that is to put between the outcome of the virus experiments and curious of that matter and here I have to apologize that my presentation will have the bias of considering party automatic candidate.
14:13:03 I mean, nothing against the others, the other classes just. The closest situation to my expertise. Then, okay, the second point is a bit, a bit more passed on one.
14:13:17 Think it is definitely important to me is also to implement in a more systematic way. The information about the potential, the matter production mechanism in the US.
14:13:29 And the last, I mean, this, I mean, is sent to that also and getting educated recently.
14:13:35 So this is something that also and getting educated recently. So this is something that maybe I will leave mostly so this is something that maybe I will leave mostly to feedback from the audience.
14:13:38 We have new players in some sense in the games in the game that are the various detection related to gravitational wave, but maybe a good question to ask in also this will affect the theory landscape.
14:13:51 But if and out this can affect the landscape of that matter. So within this points have been pointed just as some example which I repeat just.
14:14:03 To give something concrete for a for a discussion. And so coming to the first point, so as I was mentioning, the idea is find which is the the best way to put in contact here.
14:14:18 Okay, so on the left, I think this in famous picture biotech, I think most of you is all there's pain to us on time, and that see this slide where you see the the bigger landscape of particular.
14:14:31 And so here an important point in my business find a way to make them to speak a 50, point in my business, find a way to make them to speak effective reading to the outcome of the complementary, find a way to make them to speak a 50 reading, to the outcome of the complementary, that, which are the usual one, the, the detection, that a detection and
14:14:46 collided. So. And here, I mean, what would I like to briefly discuss? Just an example of the complication that this kind of exercise can put in front of the community.
14:14:59 In the case of study is the case of a model which is called vector exporter which is Also you said for one important sex is now a day which has been also very remember call 3% to that top which are the sexes of possible exotic in busy body case of the explosion.
14:15:18 Okay. So. So here the any particular this kind of shot is put. Typically in close contact with the direct detection.
14:15:29 The explanation is evident in this slide. That so basically the idea is that TPP, the big player in the game will be the pathetic and camping of the ex boss and with the.
14:15:46 And this kind of cutting, capping of the expulsion with the other matter pair. And this kind of cutting, enters more or less in the same way both, and this kind of cutting, enters more or less in the same way, both in the decorate of dexterous in the same way, both in the decorate of dirks, both on the scattering
14:15:51 cross, both on the scattering cross section of the, both on the scattering cross section of the dark matter.
14:15:52 So given this, it's a straightforward to make the access pick one limit. So, any pathetic, question to, but, in, in, on the decarctic, and, and put just today this limit in the other way to see.
14:16:04 What we can conclude. And this is done, rather effectively by the, the, the.
14:16:13 And, here, as you see, in this cycle, I pointed out that, you know, it's like a normal situation which is the case in which the dramatic candidate is a vector field.
14:16:25 Because in the other cases, you see these are the, should be the blue and the orange line.
14:16:32 Basically, the reason the following. You have just one counting, so. This kind of exercise will lead that in this video, MATT, that, MATT, the MASSES COS section, a single line.
14:16:44 But you see in the case of the vector that matter you see here approximately 3 parallel lines. Which actually refers to slightly different model.
14:16:55 So the question is why we need the 2 every 3 benchmark for the vector. And why we contained ourselves for just one for the other for the for a scale or for a.
14:17:08 And the reason is that It's just the shape of the code. You see that the limit. So here the blood should be read as follows.
14:17:15 So basically on the left we are dominated by the limit which are given by the collider. So really imposing that the musical mentioning pressure of the X is below a certain limit.
14:17:25 While on the left you see for example dotted line. You make a decomposition with the limit from dedicated and other detection experiment.
14:17:37 So the TPK outcome of this plot is that in the high, the matter mass regime, we are dominated by direct detection experiment on the left on the contrary while the detection experiment at least the character generation is mostly limited by the threshold energy.
14:17:54 On the contrary, If not to this limitation, make the difference. At the point if you see the code of director and that matter you see that the limit becomes extremely strong as the does matter.
14:18:12 And the reason is that if you really face unfortunately for that expression but if you look at the data expression but if you look at the data expression but if you look at the data expression but if you look at that relationship so that the the decay rate of the, into a vector, that matter goes with the in.
14:18:29 If you consider the simplest model, so you just write.
14:18:30 Yeah, just like that and effective for, for, scattering between Next, and the vector field.
14:18:39 You see, out of it, one next takes a, you get it in your camping, so you can compute the decorate of top of the slag.
14:18:44 And if you make this computation, you get a decorator which goes with the invest of the fourth power, the doesn't matter.
14:18:50 So, politically, the rate that seems to diverge if the matter must goes to 0. Of course, here for the average year is that they are.
14:19:00 Brings that which says that the same thing maybe is Not to go in the prophetic way. And the reason is that this is just, an or normalized world model.
14:19:14 I think here you play, sorry, you pay the price of not considering. You're writing a consistent model.
14:19:18 So if you think, for this, some people say look let's consider a realistic completion of this model.
14:19:25 In which then here is the problem that basically, of course, already in the standard model, you know, that the don't you're doing as degrees of freedom from the Gage boss of make direct or some processes to Good, or to be able in a pathological way.
14:19:40 You saw this problem when once you plug in the Dix, which dynamically generates the masses of the vector buses and put all the rates.
14:19:47 And you can put Here just, refresh the same solution. So. Good. You, you find a more than which you're better than, but just, the Gage Boston becoming massive of some.
14:20:02 But if you play this game You pay the price of introducing new parameters on that you are in particular you introduce a new expose which can enter in the relevant trade.
14:20:15 This is a problem pointed out. Sorry the plot has been realized by me but I have to give credit by the Korean group laid by.
14:20:23 With the fest that. It's pro. I is that if you consider a realistic model.
14:20:29 Good, 2 additional parameters on your theory and then if you Play again in the game of the correlation between the detection and visible.
14:20:41 It's better than having a single line which is in blue. You get basically at later off point which you can get a limit the bottom are stronger or much weaker than the one which is typically reported by coal larger.
14:20:54 So the reason is that you see the different clients in the paper, BLC, is that they found a compromise solution which they put The line which was called correspondence to the purely not a normalizable model and they put below and above 2 lines for the realistic model which correspond just to to a senation of these 2 extra parameters.
14:21:20 . Not taking the time how much time I ever
14:21:28 Okay, thanks. Okay. I will take just, just one. So, and also I also used this example also to make, And at that point, You see, this kind of plot that it just in some sense a pure experimental because just compare the outcome of different experiments but We know that one of the fundamental requirements for any party got to be good that matter is that should contribute to fix the amount or to the energy budget of
14:21:58 the. So we can ask in this parameter space we can accommodate to that our current data as the code.
14:22:05 Density. Right, it depends because for example you can see the the most popular scenario which is the feeds out.
14:22:14 This is again, just a formulation of, the correlation plot. So the correlation plot, so the corridor, the, the, the Dr.
14:22:26 Dashi lines and stated the execution from that detection. And the soil lines would be the cool, which correspond to the current, lead density if you're still.
14:22:35 The web. You see here that the code corresponding to a directory. I don't lie if you're within the kinematic average in a region which is by far exquisite.
14:22:47 It's a region that ISSUE at least 5 to 10 years ago, more or less if I remember.
14:22:52 Definitely sensitivity or we have to go. In a region, a tiger matter mass, for example, you have not any longer sensitive to a seed because you're like you are outside that the or not but see for example we are still very constrained by
14:23:13 Again, a possible solution would for example again in this holistic completion of the vector, matter for example to use this extra degrees of freedom to increase the the mountain, election cross section, without increasing the scattering cross section of ethnoplane.
14:23:29 This is for example is done in this plot. If you not do the exercise of making a scan of the millet parameters, in post-decorated density and put to the viable points.
14:23:42 As I done here in this in this in the aircraft. Put to this point again, sorry for the painting over and over the same access.
14:23:50 If you put to this variable point within the LC correlation plot, you will see a distribution of points which cannot track at all.
14:23:58 Ex of course. So in this sense. The let's see benchmark is not a good benchmark for the quality of matter read density if you assume the whip planning because of course.
14:24:10 You can. Deviate from, from this assumption.
14:24:15 And again, I mean, since I do not want to spend just on my sloped on speaking on my side, the only thing is that as I said really basically realized, on some assumption about today, the universe up to now we follow the, the fits of party being.
14:24:32 The most, but I don't know, I agree with what Marco said. Alpha may be one of the best and she's motivated from the tutorial from the traditional perspective but still there are also some new ideas which also look to move the viable parameter space in in front of the experimental For example, there is a recent paper by Lebanese collaborators.
14:24:56 We proposed that. And, in, in, which is called, Frazine in, Strongest Counting.
14:25:04 You see here, basically, we have a series of contour, so the current contour has current very density here.
14:25:09 You Introduce a further parameter related to the cosmology which is the reading time pressure associated either to, for example, a low, temperature inflation of some period of I understand of cosmology.
14:25:25 And if you see, you can. Yeah, this again, the more the reference model was again in exporter, but to this time, the the market candidate is escaped.
14:25:34 You see that by just considering different production mechanism you can feed for example region of the parameter space which are between the present exclusion which is
14:25:47 At the moment is getting by the experiment. You can have very intensity down to down to very long various of the, cutting even being below, typically called the I remember you're just this sort of this reducible background.
14:26:02 For the reductionist payment are represented by the detection. Of the scattering of neutrinos.
14:26:10 And. I think, as I said, I mean, think I can stop here and maybe leave the rest of my slaughter to all event of feedback from the audience.
14:26:21 And thanks again from the.
14:26:33 Questions? Or suggestions, ideas.
14:26:43 As a direct. Experimentalist. It always seems you go to conference cycles and there's some new brand new idea that for an entire someone everyone is talking about.
14:26:55 And then in the future years you never hear about that model again. And I'm always wondering, oh, did someone realize there was a problem with that model it was already ruled out or Because we have no data, it hasn't been and that's always my question of understanding where we are in the theory because It seems like there's cycles of popularity and that as an experimentalist, it's hard for
14:27:16 me to follow that. So we can, if this. Helps in that landscape, I would find that very useful.
14:27:23 Thanks for the feedback for the moment. I've been if not on top of my head a list of say of very close to that model or still alive.
14:27:36 Try to make a Hey, I'm being sold on, okay, we, the price of its popularity and it's the most widely test of its popularity and is the most widely tested.
14:27:46 I mean, moment to that detection has been extremely effective in straining this kind of scenario and if I try to guess statistic I would say maybe something between 90%.
14:28:02 Of the MoD had been a rather affected V key led by SENDON BASICIANS but still I could provide some example of models which have a.
14:28:15 But still, I could provide some example of models which have a cross section which give you a totally natural value density without fanching the parameter and well inside the .
14:28:25 A specific scenario which are currently excluded Honestly, not come to my mind. Single, single modest with short currently school that on the contrary there are Data, a lot about, okay.
14:28:40 Probably would it be a good idea to make a list about This will come to my mind.
14:28:52 I your impression that there are waves of popularity of the model, that's very true, I think.
14:28:58 And I share also what the Georgia says, the twins are sort of declining. My feeling is that the wave of popularity of premature black holes, which are not of interest for a direct detection.
14:29:09 In He's already going down and the current most popular ideas are these a sub-Gividar matter.
14:29:18 Say. Why? And which are instead interesting for electron scattering and direct detection. I don't know.
14:29:26 That's my personal impression. Plus the accidents of course, but that's a still there since the decades.
14:29:40 Thank you. So maybe I misunderstood what you said, but could you go back to, the.
14:29:51 . 1 1, one more or 2. So you're claiming we can put the Collider sensory carb with the dialect experiment.
14:30:05 Without the Only that fun. As far as I know, there's a huge, Just changing the coupling over the dark matter to a some both on the mediator And we are comparing that dialect, search is, that we are searching with, the non-reactivistic regime.
14:30:32 So that whatever you do in the climate, you need to go from a real. Down to the No, related, heabistic regime.
14:30:45 And that's a quite the. Yeah, big assumption you need. As far as I know. So.
14:30:54 And I understand quickly what do you say? It's the following. The point, okay, this kind of plot that is made in the following way.
14:31:05 You, you started from the limit on the VC all week of the second. Here you are no particular assumption that the Then basically I suppose they, okay, at the moment, remember correct, you have the limit on this, in this, in visual branch infraction of around 10%.
14:31:22 So you can convert to this limiting a limit in value of the cartling, that you can put inside the. Right.
14:31:33 And, like, a, one, which just go over this thing. Yeah. So, that my point is you cannot do that.
14:31:36 So that you need to take into account. The difference between relativistic to a non related relativistic.
14:31:44 Okay, then of course they did okay here I made things fast of course the difference that relativistic, okay, here I made things fast.
14:31:56 Of course, the difference, that relativity, is inside the the computation of direct. And this is in principle is taken into account of course.
14:32:00 So you put, but, and this is in principle, it's taken into account of course. And, it's taken into account of course, you put, but for example, the red detection rate discordant that you are in the assumption of not relativistic regime, but still you have a dependence on the can't think of that matter of days because if it's starting this
14:32:13 0 you have not to the You have not at all. But even if, of course, you have productive compounds, maybe I completely miss your We, maybe, the talking different, the energy, energy regime, no?
14:32:27 Okay, so in San Francisco, the 2 regimes have taken into account adjusting the computation of the rate.
14:32:34 The point maybe the the issues that, since are 2 different energetic regime, no one, that you can really pick the same card in because there can be running effects.
14:32:45 Of course, here I'm adding the essential but for example for this kind of model this assumption is reasonable that really you can pick the same coupling when you do the computation in the 2 regimes.
14:32:56 I said for this model, for others this would be not allowed to do this. Yeah, I don't know why you can do that.
14:33:06 Maybe I should look at the paper. Yeah, maybe I got to a point. Okay.
14:33:36 Any other comments or questions? Also online.
14:33:42 Well, if not, thanks again.
14:33:49 Let's go. The.
14:34:09 I suspect we're starting with Ian's, presentation. And I thought that was the plan, but.
14:34:15 If you is connected.
14:34:18 Yeah, I'm here.
14:34:19 Good, yes. Yeah, it's possibly better to start with the overview and then go for the specific.
14:34:24 Yeah, okay, that'll be good. Can I share my slides?
14:34:26 Yeah. Yeah, you should be able to. Let me know if you can.
14:34:30 Okay, let me try.
14:34:37 Can you see those?
14:34:37 Yes, we see half the screen. Yeah, we do. So if you want to put this Sure.
14:34:42 Do you see the lot now? Hang on, I think you're still saying the You know, hang on, let me go to this boat.
14:34:50 Yeah, perfect. Yes, thank you.
14:34:50 Is that the whole thing up? Okay, great. Okay. So thank you very much for the triumphs of today.
14:34:56 I want to talk about how the detector. Back for detector roadmap. Panel and their work.
14:35:03 Has enabled a community to lay out a ambitious program of instrumentation in Europe and more broadly to address the great questions in fundamental physics.
14:35:13 I don't particular for this. Meeting. So as you know, the progress that we've made over the last century as enable us to delineate much more commonly than ever before what we don't know today.
14:35:28 And what we don't know for all of these great mysterious questions. And the fact that we don't know these, is that they, addressing them.
14:35:38 Is what I would be doing over the next 50 years or more. In particular in this meeting. There's multiple theoretical solutions to many of these problems.
14:35:49 And so experiment has primacy and must guide the way.
14:35:55 And we're very much therefore in a data driven error for which we need new tools. That's tools, primarily.
14:36:04 Boldly interpreted. And new directions in science are launched by new tools much more often than they are by new concepts.
14:36:11 The effect of a concept driven revolution is to explain odd things in new ways. Effect of a children. Is to discover new things that have to be explained.
14:36:21 We must measure what is measurable. I make measurable, but it's not so.
14:36:26 The most recent European strategies for astronautical nuclear and particle visits. A community driven strategies outlining our ambitions across all 3 thirds to address compelling open questions.
14:36:38 And they provide guidance for funding authorities to develop resource loaded research programs.
14:36:45 The update of the European strategy, in 2,019. Recognize the primacy of instrumentation.
14:36:53 And called on the community. And to define a global detector R&D robot. And that's what was produced in 2,021.
14:37:03 The technology classification that we started from from the act detector roadmap included these 8 technology families, a number of which are relevant for the matter.
14:37:16 And at the same time, we recognize that the technologies that we develop in particle physics are broadly applicable to nuclear physics and astrophysics as well and so the roadmap has a close relationship with the development and those 2 other closely allied fields.
14:37:33 So the roadmap started from the idea that given the physics future physics program that we want to achieve to address those great questions, we should identify the main technology R&D to be met so that detectors are not the limiting factor for the timeline.
14:37:46 And so the detector concept that was considered, ranged all the way from the NHC and on baseline neutrinos.
14:37:53 Through to future muon collators and not accelerator experiments, including importantly the search but don't matter, but also react to neutrinos and beta decay and so on and EDMs and other things of that type.
14:38:06 And we produce the main document, in a short, a pager for the public. It was an exercise over more than a year having many large open symposia and wide community input.
14:38:19 The roadmap document itself if you actually read it shows that for each task was that is for each technology area and for training as well.
14:38:27 The aim was to propose a time-ordered attack to R&D program by detector, research and development themes, DIDs.
14:38:35 And on the right are the 9 errors in which we looked. And the DIDT things for each of them to match.
14:38:42 With the timeline on the right, the programs of experiments shown on the bottom left. Of this slide. And so of course this writing is far too small to see.
14:38:56 And so just to blow up one of them to show you this is the gaseous detectors and there were 4 research streams including improve the time spatial resolution including adding achieved tracking detectors that are both VEDX and DDX capable, develop an environmentally friendly gases, achieving high sensitivity to both low and high pressure GPCs and so on.
14:39:16 And then for that gaseous detector, if you looked in more detail, you'd see we prepared to detect a readiness matrix of each task force for each technology focusing to the extent to which the R&D is mission critical to the program rather than intensity the R&D by the colored markers that are shown on the right for the different roles of the detectors, the gases detectors, the different experiments and the different
14:39:42 metrics that we were using to establish the criteria to meet the targets. How's it experiments and you can see here that red hair means must happen or the physicals will not be met and it was laid out and for every single part of the roadmap you can find these types of charge.
14:39:58 What you see of course are gases detectors are ubiquitous and there's a long frustration time to realize that. And this was generally true.
14:40:03 So the timeline that we started in 2,019 and where we are today we're now in 2,023 and we've got to the point where we're preparing proposals.
14:40:14 So how does that come to be? So the overall roadmap is shown in this box. And these are different technologies in the smaller cuboids.
14:40:23 And the reporting and setting up under wreck for and plenary effort and then various advisory panels from accelerate from nuclear physics and astrological physics as well.
14:40:34 And this was, very much a humidity, community treatment effort. I have many other technologies go into play.
14:40:44 I consultations at all stages. Now, the recommendations that this made, and I won't go through them all here, there's 10 global recommendations, but the fourth one is to establish international coordination.
14:40:55 Organization of RNT activities. And the sixth one is to establish long term strategic funding for instrumentation development.
14:41:02 And to form international DID, detector research and development collaborations to achieve this.
14:41:13 And so the framework for these DID collaborations is similar to the general conditions of the execution of experiments that serve.
14:41:20 The dedicated RD. Review Committee called the DRDC, son in the center, gray rectangular, and there would be an MOU with the funding agencies as well.
14:41:29 So this DID will review the proposals coming from the. Different technologies that are proposing a proposal to be reviewed and then this will cause to an SPC and up to Sun Council.
14:41:42 And the DC makes recommendations to the search board. And there's input from the community via the ECP detector roadmap panel beyond the part of the community.
14:41:53 That wrote the proposal itself. And so the membership of these panels is shown here. On the left the detector panel and on the right the DIDC with its church on this Berg hour has just been appointed very recently.
14:42:10 So the BID collaborations and to ensure The R&D Redis is not a primary project schedule driver.
14:42:17 There's 5 proposals and 2 that is a big tab that have been submitted. To the DIDC this month in August.
14:42:23 So last month now, September, it took 9 months of preparation. Again, it was all community driven with workshops and course of contributions.
14:42:31 And the EPPROMAP panel provided guidance and templates. And the leadership at the moment are the Toscals leaders and the detector roadmap panel along with the CERN organized R&D, 50, 80 51, ID, 52, 42, RD, 18, and the Calais and Ida, Innivar collaborations.
14:42:52 So these the ideas, as I said, were defined by the Expert Detector roadmap technologies.
14:42:57 And so with regard to dark matter of particular importance of the liquid sensors, we might to hear about in a few moments, quantum and also gaseous photon play an important role as well.
14:43:08 One of this mapping to the head strategic projects that are listed here and others that could come along in the future.
14:43:16 There's obviously overlap between, the different needs of a, don't matter community, for example, in developing a liquid detector you'd be very interested in the development of TPC readout that would be under DID one.
14:43:29 And photo sensors, which is under a different proposal, DID 4. And so there'd be lots of overlap and interleaving, and this would be essential for the effective program.
14:43:41 I the planning is dynamic. At the moment we're considering only the first 4 years, but this is an example showing, for example, click on FCC, but there are many other shorter timescales here for the non-accelerator and smaller experiments including dark matter.
14:43:58 So the DID collaboration organization of resources, the organization of the framework is described in the proposals including the human resource and a budget.
14:44:07 And Emma used for the first phase, the first 3 to 4 years, will be prepared in 2,024 for agreement with the FAs after the DC has evaluated the feasibility of the programs and then there'll be a ramp up the funding needs with time that can be expected as new technologies are accessed.
14:44:24 I'm proposed. Now just looking very briefly at Quantum and how that plays an important role.
14:44:31 This has never been included in a European roadmap before for particle physics, a similar room up in the United States did include quantum one year ahead.
14:44:39 So quantum technologies, as you know, are rapidly emerging areas and technology development in the study of fundamental physics.
14:44:46 And it comes really from the ability to engineer quantum systems to take advantage of entanglement and superposition ultimately.
14:44:54 But before that, to simply increase the sensitivity of the senses we already have. There are many, many different types of sensor and technologies being studied in the roadmap from atomic clocks and caught networks, the spin brace for example, NMR style sensors, super conducting sensors up to up to a mechanical sensors and the use of atoms and monikers and ions as sensors
14:45:19 themselves and atomic deformity. There's lots of initiatives around the globe already at CERN at daisy, at Fermin in the US and the UK, in Japan, for example, and the extra detector roadmarks proposal when it is ready will lay out a vision for Europe more broadly for how this should move forward to enable our food and in particular don't matter it would be one of
14:45:41 the main beneficiaries of this program. So this plot is simply the possible range of dark matter masses and the blue is most of the search area today where we've been searching for years for wimps at larger masses, proton above, and then in blue at the left hand side is the searches that have focused, for example, ADMX and other similar experiments and also some of the qubit experiments now and around the
14:46:09 microelectron vault level. But with the full range of the technologies of quantum sanctions, it will label the community, this community here, to explore all of the green region as well more effectively than before.
14:46:22 And so it has great potential to increase enormously the window. The matter surgeries. So the status of that one, if you look in the roadmap, you would find that it was laid out, sensors with high sensitivity and precision as the focus.
14:46:38 And secondly, there's also another part of this who would emerging technologies and what that was referring to was novel low-dimensional materials, nanometer as meta materials and heterogeneous materials as well.
14:46:48 And both of these are discussed in that chapter. The ID 5 and they enable entirely new concepts in some cases and many, many surgeries will be enhanced and enabled for electric dipole moments and neutrino physics and trainer, some of basically decay, the study of fundamental forces including gravity in particular through an interferometry and other novel methods and of course dot matter itself.
14:47:11 And so these were the detector research and development themes. 5.1 through 5.4. The slanted lines of the different types of experiment that were on going or you could envisage and these were the technology areas in the block on the left that were considered and the criticality to get those 10 technologies ready by certain dates on the right to enable the program in the slump faced writing.
14:47:34 There's no time to go through all of this, of course, in detail. But what I can say is that see when each proposal team have with the community written their proposal for the DIDC and submitted them.
14:47:46 It was felt that for quantum sentences. That was much more work to be done than for the others because it wasn't an established community.
14:47:53 And so instead, there's not a proposal at this stage. There's a letter of intent.
14:47:57 There's thought to institutions in 15 countries, 25 proposed contributions, the conveners of Marcel de Mato, from Oak Ridge, I likely dozo from, and so the white papers will submitted to the DRDC, it identifies work packages suitable for community and collaborative effort building.
14:48:13 They're listed here. There's going to be a community meeting, of, for community and collaborative effort building. They're listed here.
14:48:17 There's going to be a community meeting, they're listed here, there's going to be a community meeting of October 2 to 4 and everyone is going to be a community meeting October 2 to 4 and everyone is invited to attend that and October 2 to 4 and everyone is invited to attend that and participate and everyone is invited to attend that and participate and contribute or certainly to observe and learn.
14:48:24 If you want to know more detail, this is the website. You can find out about many different aspects of the work.
14:48:31 There are many different documents linked here. And you can also sign up for the workshop October, 2 to 4.
14:48:38 So the outlook overall is the community has been forming DID collaborations. This is raised great deal of interest both within Europe but also more broadly in Asia and in North America and in the local South as well.
14:48:51 The, idea to use the ID collaboration status that's similar to an experiment. Has been made for it to be very good idea and there's that much example of success of this ID.
14:49:03 51, ID 52, ID. 51, ID 52, ID 52, ID 53, ID. 51, ID.
14:49:08 52, 153 or 3 wonderful examples of sesame in the past. Calise is another.
14:49:11 I think 53 or 3 wonderful examples of cessibus in the past. Calise is another.
14:49:14 Aida in another is another. And the next step is to establish the dearly collaboration organizations. So I'd like to thank all the people here have contributed to the slides I've shown today.
14:49:21 Thank you very much.
14:49:29 Thank you very much, Ian. If I might start with a question and then we open the floor.
14:49:35 I'm wondering if someone right now has an idea or haven't heard of this before.
14:49:41 How can they get involved? Is it there's still time? What do they contact?
14:49:46 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's contacts every single one of the DIDs. And there's certainly, and there has been over the last year, an attempt by other DIDs to be tracked to the community.
14:50:01 But what we have found is that even though most people now know about this, there's still people that don't.
14:50:05 And so, there is a general web page for the, for each of these book DIDs.
14:50:12 And what I can do is I can, add another slide to this. It's not on here now.
14:50:16 I can another slide and re-upload it with all the lengths that you would need for the whole community to get involved.
14:50:22 What you'll find in the talk that's coming up next, when there's a focus on quanta on the liquid census, there may well be a link there to that particular DID, DID 2, which is one where a large number of the dark matter community already involved.
14:50:38 But this is going to be very open and there'll be time for many more people to join as these as these proposals develop further and as the collaborations mature.
14:50:49 Ajay provide the link for DD. 5 in this talk. And that's how you can, that's how you can find out about that one.
14:50:53 Okay, perfect. Hmm. Great.
14:50:56 That's in the slide. That's on the slide.
14:51:04 So are there any questions regarding a specific talk? On zoom
14:51:11 Not from the room here and on zoom I don't see it either so maybe we could move to the specific case of another of a specific realization and maybe there are more.
14:51:22 Questions on both talks afterwards.
14:51:26 So thank you very much, Jan, again.
14:51:28 Thank you. I should try to stop. Am I stopping sharing? Am I still sharing?
14:51:33 No, you're not
14:51:35 Okay, good. Thank you.
14:51:45 Thank you very much.
14:51:50 Hello. Hi everyone. Yes, works. So now that you've been introduced is a whole, and is Gail the Prophet?
14:51:59 I'll just take the liquid detectors. A huge case and tell you a bit about what's been going on in this particular area.
14:52:10 So, I, is this, ariac covers a wide range of science in a dark matter, in neutrinos, neutralistical beta decays and also a range of different technologies.
14:52:25 I've interested in another liquid, liquid scintillator, went through Tereenkov and Describe her any list that I'm gonna show.
14:52:33 Right now is not exhaustive so I apologize in advance if I forget your preferred technology or,
14:52:44 So despite having different, physical goals, there are a number of common challenges that all these communities face.
14:52:53 So, so one ways at the center is actually how to scale. The textures from the current scale to the next one.
14:53:01 But there are also interest in how to reduce background rates in from energy resolution, lower energy thresholds.
14:53:11 Which is why in the liquid detector R&D we've gathered everything into 4 different groups that each have their different subgroups.
14:53:25 I will not talk in details about all of them, but mainly we have a charge without, lea light without, target properties.
14:53:34 And how to scale all of this. To the next generation detectors.
14:53:44 So if you are interested in particular in dark matter and what has been the as a focus of interest in the Dark Maral liquid detector community over the years.
14:53:57 It has mainly been noble liquid detectors. Argonne, or, then in the next generation is actually regrouping around mobile dangers using argon or xenon.
14:54:19 So for the next generation, they will have liquid detectors with organisms. And when we think about, detection in liquid detectors, obviously we immediately think about, detection in liquid detectors, obviously we immediately think about the detection in liquid detectors.
14:54:33 Obviously we immediately think about the direct, detection with Joel's phase in the bully quid time projection chambers.
14:54:36 On the left here where you actually use the light. Both from the primary interaction and electrical reminiscence to detect events.
14:54:50 But you can also look for back matter in, LLL, and, and projection members.
14:54:56 Designed for your trainers where I mean you will not look for it directly but you have an indirect access to the dark sector in these of the type of TPCs which are a single phase and without the charge mainly in these detectors.
14:55:13 So, current, dual phase, dark matter ticket. Are in the few. around the 10 ton.
14:55:27 Scale but next generation will reach hundreds of stunts and for your tunnels liquid organ species you are looking at multi kilotons kale detectors.
14:55:38 So This is where I was skating up challenges arrive.
14:55:43 I said, we are moving to larger detectors, which mean that we will need to drift the charge around longer distance will have larger active masses and we will have to read out huge areas.
14:55:59 Which reflects into different problems, problems, challenges in different areas. In terms of background, mitigation, verification of your TACA material or even how to procure.
14:56:17 SET target material. And in terms of readouts, you have to get your noise and hit the station in control because cryogenic detectors you'll have a lot of channels to read out.
14:56:30 But then to the very high deteriorate and you also need to have correct facilities to be able to assemble and test.
14:56:37 These large detectors.
14:56:42 So if we are just at first in the target material. How are you? So even how important that the low background is for the dark matter community, I've been traces of regular activity can be a problematic background.
14:56:58 So there is a lot of work to design more. As sensitive assay methods to reach the MICHAEL, Vicar, or 4 kg sensitivity.
14:57:09 There is also another thing, how to extract, purify and transport large quantities of material.
14:57:17 Another topic of interest is how to efficiently monitor the charity of the material and how to look at the election lifetime measurement potentially with.
14:57:30 Leave the beam. We've inside its dictator and not outside measurements. And, another thing that is very important is how to get correct, yeah, light field in these.
14:57:46 Dic detectors correct in uniform light field and there we are looking at how to for example dope the the medium we even know the material to enhance light field.
14:58:00 Hi, I also have to be able to understand what is the response of your material and here there is also a lot of work to design small test.
14:58:15 Since they scale. Sm testing the facility is to be able to really measure precisely the response of novel liquids.
14:58:27 If we move to the issue of life selection, the liquidargon liquids in an emit in a range that is and not necessarily the one where the sensors are the most efficient.
14:58:41 So there is a lot of work with new generations to come for the multipliers to enhance the consumer efficiency in the scintillation range of the number liquids.
14:58:53 Also work on the wavelength shifters used. If you're on to shift it to visible in terms of how to improve their efficiency or their stability over time.
14:59:08 Now, another way to when you entice the light here if you don't want to dope your material or you want to combine it is to enhance how you collect the light.
14:59:18 And here. They are ideas on how to, for example, concentrate the light onto your photon sensor.
14:59:30 For example, with nano structures like meta lenses that would just focus as buttons on your sensitive area.
14:59:39 And you will need to cover potentially very large surfaces of detectors. So this is also One of the book is point of.
14:59:50 The the rest the research and potentially you would have to put a But on detectors into high voltage environment and then you will have to deal with issues of electrical isolation and this is where the idea of having porous, signal, all the fiber comes in.
15:00:10 And I said, this is not an exhaustive list. There is a lot of work in this area.
15:00:16 So it's just a few highlights that I'm presenting today.
15:00:23 In terms of charge connection. If you think for example about the neutrino type design of detectors, one of the focus points is how to move away from the previous charge collection with oil playing into the next generation of Pixelated TPCs.
15:00:45 To, eliminate ambitious in the reconstruction procedure and also have through through threed reconstruction.
15:00:55 So now, and there is a lot of improvement in pixels, fully good antithesis out.
15:01:02 Say a bit more about that a bit later. And this thing that is very important is the charge amplification because if you want to push down.
15:01:12 Your election threshold. This is also something you have to think about. And here there is a development in the child amplification structures.
15:01:27 Like, the gasser section, the players. And, finally, and one of the things that is really interesting is how to, improve the detection of the Right without that comes that of the light that comes, ionization charge in the geophysicist with the S to light and here there is development to I read the light not with guarantees or recipients but with
15:02:01 As cameras. Hybrid, high granularity fast cameras.
15:02:09 That I said, I'll say a bit though. A bit about the pixels, mainly because this is, yeah, Ariac I'm involved in so there are too many fors in terms of, pixel, development school, this one is Labics, which is developed in the context of organ cube which is for the typing.
15:02:39 This is a low bar. Chip that is operating on the principle where it's basically dormant until it reaches a single which is a chimable threshold and then integrates the the signal which helps.
15:02:56 Reducing the the data rate. This is currently under intense R&D. And the next step is that it's going to be demonstrated into a prototype for as a genocide.
15:03:13 The other one that is interesting because it's a bit of a different way of doing things is the cubics chip.
15:03:21 Where in this one instead of saving waveforms in order to reduce the amount of data you're saving, you're saving time stamps.
15:03:30 Instead. So what happens is that as the pixel will accumulate chartered to meet electrons It will.
15:03:41 You can choose a threshold at which it will reset and what you save is the time of this reset.
15:03:49 And this allows you to. Looking at the resets to reconstruct the waveform without actually Saving it.
15:04:03 No, it wasn't interesting. I knew is how you can combine both the charge and the light redance.
15:04:12 Because having correlated large charge, emission is a strength of and to this and for example Once again, bias, but in.
15:04:23 Typical situation that operates at an equal algorithm at Mutinos, TPC, I don't know, TPC, have the energies from the dating to child and high, the energy is converted into life.
15:04:34 So it's really boosts the detection capability, especially low energy to have access to both at the same time.
15:04:43 There are 2 main efforts in this area which are solar, which is an integrated light and child redout type.
15:04:54 And the other one are multiple, modated pixels that would really both charge and light. At the same time.
15:05:00 Solar, the idea is to have a noble silicon bag. We've, we've embedded that we operate as a sepum with embedded charge pods in science.
15:05:15 And this is designed for low energy nutritional physics, mainly salon eternals. And, so this is, very recent project that is just starting, but we have started prototyping it using
15:05:31 State of the art, VUV, as you can put on the, piers and chips from the law fix.
15:05:38 And development. There have been prototypes running past year and this year that have demonstrated the ability to readouts an integrated light and charge time.
15:05:49 And The last one was very recent, so we're still looking at. The results of that but this seems all very, very promising.
15:06:01 And the other. Idea to read both, 1,000 light is to have Pixel? We've, coded with a video convicting material and search is currently looking at, Selenium for that.
15:06:17 And the idea is that you will have know the Pixel, charge pixel side operating as a usual charge pixel but when a photon would be hitting the The coating then you would have a creation of electron hole pairs.
15:06:40 And what is really interesting is that if you have a layer of it is thick enough you have very high efficiency in the creation of pairs, parents from whole pairs.
15:06:52 And this means that even for once you could have sensitivity to single photons in this. Type of chips.
15:07:02 So the first. This here was to to demonstrate that it was possible to see light with this kind of coating.
15:07:13 I've, a, of temperatures, which the first test seemed to have demonstrated so R&D is very much ongoing on this.
15:07:23 Technology.
15:07:27 Not many, many areas of, for data detectors, I have given a very and to show of a view of what is happening.
15:07:40 Mainly to start the discussion. But what is very important is that there is a lot of synergies between the different subgroups and the difference in Stopics.
15:07:52 And not only in terms of research topics but also there is the idea of really creating a network of development and testing facilities because there is no.
15:08:05 Having several times the same test and that would be used by everyone. So there's the idea to create really a network of bats where people could mutualize resources in terms of development and testing.
15:08:18 If you want more information about what is actually happening in this. Are in the group. I've linked the slides from from the last meeting in this group.
15:08:33 And yeah, I, there is a lot of haven't have time to cover. I haven't even touch on the actual new technologies that are completely different than being studied.
15:08:43 But as I said, it's just to kick off the discussion. So thank you for your attention and.
15:08:49 This discuss.
15:08:55 Thank you very much. So do we have any comments or contribution from Zoom?
15:09:06 I guess since I'm on Zoom I will start with one as well. So my question is, this this seems really interesting and this is one thing that in the last.
15:09:15 The kickoff meeting for idea. New people were asking for so what you're doing is something the community really wanted, this network of our R&D facilities and shared the sources.
15:09:26 Now, since IBM, you the community that, essentially it's a matter repository so that it finds, It helps people find information.
15:09:37 How do you and Ian think that this kind of a initiatives should be advertised on the idea a new website.
15:09:45 If you want that to happen. I mean, it might be too early, it might be that we have to wait a bit longer.
15:09:51 How does IVM you help you and the day? Roadmap.
15:10:01 I, I think I might, may, it might get more efficient for Ian, given he has more.
15:10:10 Thank you.
15:10:10 Yeah, but I can say that they First of all, they should be. On the item your website.
15:10:18 There should be a link to. Why in which people that see that link can follow it and get to some place that gives them relevant information about how to see what the status is and how to get involved.
15:10:31 And with the way things unfolded somewhere on the head for detector roadmap was that That was initially there was a place you could go and you could find pretty much everything.
15:10:42 But then with time things became a bit more disjoint. And there were lots of different places you could go depending on exactly what you wanted to know.
15:10:51 And so what I think we should do, I mean, for example, I think I could.
15:10:57 Probably put in the chat window. You see that I've just met Shadow Link. This link was set up fairly early and as in principle, the place you can go and find out about the Ex for detector roadmap, all of it.
15:11:09 And if you open that page. Well, you, what you will find is that there are. Let's all the different, areas.
15:11:18 But then when you follow those links, you don't necessarily get to the most up to date information every case.
15:11:24 And so I'm going to, I've brought this up before, but I'm going to bring it up again.
15:11:29 With the, with the rest of the expert, to, about panel leadership so that we can make one place that everybody, about panel leadership, so that we can make one place that everybody can get to from which they can choose which area is the most interested in and that would be the thing to link to the to the idea of new web page.
15:11:45 That would be maximally useful for everybody. Because actually even though it's fairly obvious that liquids would be a very interesting one for the community here.
15:11:53 And quantum would be very interesting. There's also some really interesting and photo and detection as well as fundamental.
15:12:00 And that's a separate. A separate proposal, a separate task force, but the connections are intimate.
15:12:09 And knowing what's going on there and putting what's happening there, well this will be really important for this community.
15:12:14 Everything. So, so I think that's why having a general site which you could then pick and choose which areas of most interested the community would be the best.
15:12:22 And what I could in the chat window is the one that is the most general sight at the moment, but I don't really think that I think it could be improved.
15:12:31 Or perhaps some of us are going to improve and provide a new one. I don't know about it and I would check that this was Well, I can't really have pointed to people too in the past.
15:12:39 I'll try to track over the weekend if there's a better site or what we can do to make it easier.
15:12:44 There's certainly a really nice site that. Brooks and and Trustee and their colleagues have put together just the consensus.
15:12:55 Thank you. I think that makes sense. We could have a page on the website saying this is the roadmap.
15:13:03 Yeah.
15:12:59 That are relevant for that matter and the link. This one, the output one. In the European strategy briefing book.
15:13:07 So this is a different things, but then people can find them, at least the European initiatives.
15:13:11 Yeah, yeah, it's actually very informal. The link itself is full of loose and information.
15:13:15 So it is actually very interesting to everybody and we should give them that and maybe also signpost. To help people with the ones I'm most interested in as well on your web page.
15:13:25 Good.
15:13:26 Yeah, so when we make this happen, we'll also send it to you so you have feedback.
15:13:31 Okay, thank you very much. That's appreciated.
15:13:30 Yeah, we'd be happy to input and help you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
15:13:39 Any questions from the room then?
15:13:43 Thank you for the very interesting talk. 2 questions, actually. First, what happens in this selenium case.
15:13:51 2 questions, actually. First, what happens in the selenium case? Like, is it? First, what happens in the selenium case?
15:13:53 Like, is it more similar like in a photovoltaic device like or is it a phase transition induced by like the photon from like don't know insulating to conductor that 10 is measured and then the second for the enhanced photosensitivity in liquid chambers, let's say, would it be more useful like to being able to detect let's say lower energy nuclear recourse
15:14:17 for example or would it help more in discriminating from the background like maybe in a similar way. With the charge signal for the lighter dark matter, we can know if it's one electron and the analogous with one photon or if it's small.
15:14:31 Yeah.
15:14:34 Second question first. I would say it's, oh, I mean, if you, if you're the lower energy.
15:14:43 They're, a, of images threshold is the more access you have to bring the lower mass. And back matter and.
15:14:52 And things like this. It also, I mean, enhancing also the light election will help you in terms of Improving your in there, for example.
15:15:06 So it's all it's really full. You're gaining on all. All, all aspects.
15:15:16 Pushing down your threshold and improving the actual performance of the detector. It helps you anyway. Also a question.
15:15:27 I have a doubt. So the first question about what's happening and how exactly the electron whole pair is created in the in the Selenium.
15:15:39 I will have to go back to the Sure, yeah, no problem. Just because my background is Matia, and I was interested.
15:15:45 But yes, thank you.
15:15:51 Thank you. Any other questions from the room? Also on the general, can go back to the general talk.
15:16:00 I don't see any raised hand in the room.
15:16:05 So maybe we move then.
15:16:09 To the next contribution.
15:16:20 There we are. Thank you very much, Savannah.
15:16:27 Okay, I hope that you're not the board yet to hear about that matter. So just bear with me for a 20 more minutes.
15:16:35 So this is just a summary about the results of from this normal process about what should be the directions for dark matter searches and how we can exploit their complementarity.
15:16:46 So just to start, what is Nomas? S is a US exercise and it's a goal is to prepare a collective vision for the next decay of the particle vision for the next decay of the particle physics in the US.
15:16:58 And this was done working on and collecting new scientific studies. And also engaging the community with a particular focus on the junior scientist.
15:17:08 It is organized in 10 frontiers just to name a few, cos be frontiers, energy frontiers, and each of these is further divided in 5 to 10 topical groups.
15:17:19 And as you can mention, one of the topic groups was that matter. Then the vision which is the outcome of this process is taken by the particle physics, the project priorityization panel, T 5.
15:17:32 And this is like used as an input for a 10 year strategic plan. So then the second question is what is that matter?
15:17:40 So as we have learned, we do not know much about that matter, unfortunately. We have evidence of its existence.
15:17:48 And we only know few things. It doesn't, a gravitational, it is long lived is neutral, but these leave us with a very wide range of possible that matter, masses which are still compatible with the relative density.
15:18:00 So this means that in order to be able to hopefully find that matter, we need both to delve deep, so continue studying all those candidates that we have.
15:18:09 That have been the focus. So far, but also to search why so that we can really cover all the masses that are available.
15:18:19 So then this means that over the next decade, we really need to have a unified strategy so that we can maximize the possibility to discover that matter.
15:18:29 Why this is important. This is important because if we find that matter This we need all these different approaches that we can regulate the nature of that matter, but even if we do not find any that matter candidate, we can still gain valuable information about what that matter cannot be.
15:18:49 So what is the road ahead? So it was suggested that we should build a portfolio of experiments at different scales so that we can access all these different mass regions.
15:19:02 Then there should also be a strong US based program but also employing the US expertise in international projects. Then also there should be support to the TRE community because as we heard this is a key point so that we can compare all the results from different experiments but also have a guidance towards where we should look.
15:19:24 And then it's important also to support the collaboration between different disciplines and also increase the research budget so that we can make all of this possible.
15:19:35 That so we have just started to hear why it is important to have a complementarity and here you see the different frontiers that they had as a topical group that matter.
15:19:46 So this is important because for example if you concentrate on the cosmic part of the frontier so this they directly probe relative matter so we can have that access to information about that matter how properties and also they give us the connection to the cosmological that matter in case we find any new particle.
15:20:06 While if you go to the energy or the rare and precision frontiers in this case, you are producing the dark matter.
15:20:11 So we are able to test all the different type of interactions that you can think of. This is also important because in case of discovery, if we have a, for example, discovery at the end after the and the colliders we needed to make sure with the other frontiers that indeed the DC is, that, and also for example different frontiers, they're sensitive either to no relativistic regimes or to relativistic
15:20:38 regimes. Another interesting thing is that we can also have experiments which are co-located so that we can really make a good use of the resources that we have so far.
15:20:50 So the goal of this presentation is really to get inputs and opinions from the people that did not participate in this Nomans process so that we can inform the European community about what were the output of this process and you can agree and you can give us feedback about if there is anything else that we should include so that we can really have a good roadmap towards the discovery.
15:21:15 So, going a bit more details into the different frontiers so we can start with a direct and direct Kational experiments.
15:21:23 So here, Delphi, DP means to continue exploring the Wimpodarmacher candidate but searching wide means that we should also move to other range masters.
15:21:32 So for example to lower values. In this case, the recommendations was to build a diverse portfolio of experiments at multiple scales.
15:21:43 And also to support the theory. But also the R&D because whenever we have an improved technology these is what opens up also a new window in the phase space that we can cover.
15:21:56 So here you see just a sketch of what is the nice interplay, complementarity of the direct and data detection experiments with different type of frontiers.
15:22:05 And what just to highlight one there is a nice connection also with the underground facilities because if we want to host the new generation of experiments, we need more space.
15:22:17 Then going to the wave like that, in this case we are considering the very light candidates. So we know the electron vault and in this case the delving deep means continue studying the QCD action but we should also search wide going into broader models that they look for accident-like particles.
15:22:36 In this case, the suggestions were to continue pursuing the KCD action with the current projects that you see listed here, but also to have a small scale experiments so that we can really use the different technologies.
15:22:50 We should also support new technologies but also collaborations and as well as theory, course in this case. Here you see an example of the interplay with other frontiers and here I would like to highlight that in this case in order to connect it efficiently to energy, rare and precision and also neutrino frontiers we really need input from the Kuri community so that we can understand better which connections are there and in case of discovery.
15:23:18 How these could guide the other experiments.
15:23:23 Going to the cosmic problem that matter, this is an interesting field because in this case we are really testing the dark matter properties through gravity.
15:23:33 So the only force that we really know that that matter follows. So in this case, the road map or the suggestions is that the high energy community should support cosmological studies.
15:23:46 As well the construction of future experiments. Also in this case, both theory simulation are really should be supported because they are key features in order to make an effective use of these.
15:24:00 Type of experiments. Here you see the usual type of sketch where you see what is the interplay and complementarity and just to name a one so in the case of the new 3 you know there is a nice connection because if we have inputs on the the KV, MASSES, neutrinos, then we can Couldn't it to the impact that he has on the cosmic structure
15:24:23 formation. Moving to the rare and precision frontier, so in this case we're talking about the Termmann, Dr.
15:24:32 Candidates, which they have a mass between MEV and GE. Searching.
15:24:36 So in this case, to search wide, this means to ask, try to access lower masses.
15:24:42 And the recommendations were to exploit fully the capabilities of the large multi-purpose detectors that we have right now.
15:24:51 So Vel 2 and LCB, but also to invest in small-scale experiments so that we can also explore the subGV, Term of that matter.
15:25:00 Another point that you saw before and you will still see later is that we should really support the theory community in this field.
15:25:09 So here you see the interplay complementarity. We already name a few, but for example with respect to the energy frontiers here, they really cover complementary phase spaces in terms of mass and couplings.
15:25:24 So moving to the energy frontiers, in this case we have colliders, so where start still studying, that matter candidates, but in the MEV, sorry, to the GV to the TV scale.
15:25:36 So that'll be in need, continue studying the with candidate, but also trying to look for light at that matter particles, dark sector mediators and other components.
15:25:48 So in this case, the suggestions are for the immediate future to exploit at best the high.
15:25:57 And in the intermediate future there is the possibility of an electron for positron collider and this will give us more information if that matter interacts with the standard model through a standard model or a beyond standard model.
15:26:11 Mediator and especially in the case where we have a couplings that favor the laptop. In the longer term, there is the multi TV discovery machine and in this case we could really test higher energies not only of that manner but of the full dark sector and also we were reach the milestone of thermal that matter up to threeGV.
15:26:32 So that there is a nice complementarity with lower mass frontiers. Here is the usual sketch.
15:26:40 So we already name a few of these and one maybe think to highlight is indeed that energy and so colliders and rare and precision experiments they could be locally located in the same facilities.
15:26:54 Then moving to the neutrino, frontier in this case, the main focus is to understand the neutral properties, but we can also give information about that matter.
15:27:04 In fact, we can search wide and look for the right-handed Essra neutrinos for neutrino portals, but we can also have indirect pro that matter through the study of anomalies in nutrio flaxes.
15:27:18 So in this case they wish this is to have the realization of the dune experiment in its full scope within the next decade.
15:27:26 And also advance the understanding in the And this is essential for example of in terms of complementarity with direct and indirect detection experiment because if we have a better understanding of the neutrino of Naxis, both type of frontiers can benefit from that.
15:27:44 So there are many other additional critical components of course to the picture. So we already seen that the theory appears quite a lot because this is a key aspect.
15:27:55 Of the possibility to discover that matter, but there is also instrumentation because our new technologies that really allows and then and experiment to access new phase space.
15:28:06 Then also computing is an essential part for any searches because this goes from the road that I collection to the storage, the data processing or also the result interpretation.
15:28:19 Then the undergraduate facilities because we need a place where to locate our experiments. And also the accelerator frontier because in this case we should really explore the the technical aspects and also the comment.
15:28:33 What they can be done in in the in the next future. But it's not only about technologies, experiments, but it's also about people.
15:28:44 So there should be really a focus on the community. Engagement and workflow, the workforce development.
15:28:50 So we should really announce the engagement effort at all level of society.
15:28:57 Then so going back a bit about the topic of the complementarity. So we saw that there is a very huge part that we should cover or where that matter could be hiding.
15:29:09 So the complementarity is very essential so that we can look everywhere and see if that matter is hiding.
15:29:16 In some part of these phase space. And even if we don't find any that matter, this is still a very valuable information because then at least we can exclude all of these possibilities and this will still give us more information about So just to give you some, real example of how this complementarity might work.
15:29:38 So the first example is a whimp that matter, which is the lightest. The particle of a multiplet that interacts with the standard model through the weak force.
15:29:47 So you seeing these 2 plots are just a representation of the reach in terms of perception as a function of the dark matter, master from different type of experiment.
15:29:58 So you see how that detection in their detection and colliders, they could complement each other or cover similar parameters.
15:30:07 And the complementarity as we said before it's very important if we discover the matter we needed to triangulate its properties if we do not find it that at least you can guide the other experiments where to look for.
15:30:19 In other case is when we have a body that matter and the, of the interactions which are part of beyond standard model.
15:30:28 And in this case, one example that we, it's the vector portal where we have a dark photon that, sorry, I think that scalar button.
15:30:38 So we have that photo that mixes with the standard for Sunday model photo and here you see in the first case what are the reach in terms of cross-section as a function of the dark matter mass and in the second case you see the coupling as a function that that matter mass.
15:30:52 So you see that the colliders and the. Rare and precision and also diet detection experiments that can cover complementary phase space in the, in terms of this model.
15:31:06 So also if we have this important model, this means that we have, we might have a full variety of new particles both at low and high masses and so we need all this different approach in order to study this extended art sector.
15:31:22 Then the second to last case, a study that was considering there's no mass exercise. Is interactions mediated by heavy neutral electrons that needs with a standard model So here similarly, you see what are the reach in terms of the mixing angle as a function of the serial neutrino mass and you see that the cosmic probes, indirect detection, nutrient experiment as well as collider, they cover very
15:31:49 complementary phase space. So only using all of these approaches we can really cover well this phase space.
15:31:55 The last case studies with like that matter and as we mentioned before here there is still some work that is needed in order to really connect all the different frontiers but just to give you an example of what these complementary could reach.
15:32:10 So let's assume that we discovered that matter in data detection experiments. This means that we will have direct information on the dark matter.
15:32:20 Velocity distribution in the hollow. Then if we have a precision measurements of the coupling with the photos, we could distinguish which type of particle was discovered.
15:32:28 It is a chisidacion or is an action like particle. And also if we discover such particle this means that there is a full new dark sector that we could investigate a colliders where we can reach higher energies.
15:32:42 So in somebody, so we have heard also within the conference that we have plenty of evidence that that that matter exists.
15:32:51 But we have so many candidates that could be compatible with what we see in the universe. So this means that we both need to delve deep but also to search wide and this should be done across frontiers so that we can benefit from each other.
15:33:06 And this hopefully will help us to understand a bit more what that matter is or what it isn't.
15:33:13 So the complementary T close frontier is really a key aspect of the road to discovery that matter and so that's why we would like to have your inputs.
15:33:26 For example, do you have any feedbacks on the road maps and suggestions that we just discussed? There is any other, case study that should be alighted beyond the one that they were listed here and in this normal's proceedings.
15:33:38 And also do you have any suggestion from your community or experiment how these let's say ideas can really happen.
15:33:47 Thank you. Okay.
15:33:59 Thank you very much, Arthur. I see one message on the chat, but I'm not sure it's a question.
15:34:06 Okay, so it's not a question.
15:34:10 Thank you very much for this nice input on nice message again. Do you have comments for? Okay.
15:34:21 This is something that I was often asked by agencies that have to put the money. So in case you have budget restrictions, which is always the case, identified priorities.
15:34:33 Okay. Go back. So at least this is like also a bit more, kind of like maybe US space, but I think that they were like also some priorities about what it should be highlighted.
15:34:45 I think at that you have to have It depends on right, you can consider many scenarios there, right?
15:34:51 There can be, you know, just like a reduction of 10%, the reduction of 20% or a bit more.
15:34:56 So I think that It really depends also what is the case about, I guess that we've.
15:35:02 For sure she would have something that is complementary with each other, right? Then a worst case scenario, you try to see if there are experiments that maybe they can share some technology so also like I think that there is also compromise depending on how much how Much less money you get.
15:35:18 You could also try to have still the same number of experiment, maybe a bit more of share of technologies and also underground facilities and see if you can also save some money there.
15:35:27 But this is my view so I don't know if anybody wants to comment on that.
15:35:33 I think maybe I want to. Play the optimistic card here. Because this is the question that gets asked a lot.
15:35:40 But in reality It's not the case that experiments steal from each other, still funding from each other.
15:35:47 If a united front is presented there is probably more that can begin with a step to going in a funding discussion with the perspective of I must get more than the other because otherwise the other will take away some funding that I need.
15:36:05 So I think this Justin is to always. Point out it be nice. To other experiments and point out what how funding both is better than only funding one.
15:36:18 Of course, in some cases you have to give up on maybe some really super cutting edge things. That cost a lot.
15:36:24 In favor of sharing with others. So maybe this is the mindset, but in general, I think the message here that we were trying to give with this.
15:36:34 With this report is that presenting, right, the front is necessary for dark matter because otherwise and discoveries will be .
15:36:44 One and that's not going to be satisfactory enough. You see the case of DAMA, possibly.
15:36:51 I mean, what the one calls it a discovery or not. That's different thing but there there's a lot of Yeah, claims are not taken for seriously unless there's something else.
15:37:02 Either saying or complementary that Find the same fact or find it to confirm the same effect.
15:37:09 Maybe let me turn also around the comment that you made. So I think that maybe that could happen. Paso as the Katrina was saying, let's try not to.
15:37:18 Make it happen so help us in trying and really to put together like if there is anything that you think that we're missing to make it like a convinced picture I think that this is like again for all the communities.
15:37:33 I think that this is again for all the communities. So I think that this is again for all the communities.
15:37:36 So I think that this is really why we would like to have a feedback because this maybe was, with the main focus on the US because it's a US effort, but I think that really there should be an exchange in expertise.
15:37:45 And so in fact one of the points that I like it is that there is a US program but there should also be, you know, their expertise, our expertise, shared also international projects.
15:37:55 So I think that let's try not to go to that scenario and do the best. Yeah, no, no, but I understand perfectly because, he was asked to give a similar kind of, talk to the And the question that I was asked, I'm a Terretian, so I'm not actually involved in experiments.
15:38:13 But I the question was ask a little bit brutally from the I don't have money for everything.
15:38:21 You have to tell me where it's better to put the money. And I did not said that.
15:38:25 I said. This is the picture basically similar to what you showed. So this is the picture and we do not know this.
15:38:33 And these are the parts that could be done. But I was asked that, so this means that We can face these problems.
15:38:44 And I understand it's difficult because To prioritize it means that you choose. And from my point of view, I'm a politician, I would not be able to do that.
15:38:55 Yeah, and also like I don't know, put it this way, sounds more kind of like a gambling game.
15:39:00 You wanted to, you know, bet on the bike course, but then you don't really know who was, you know, who is arriving at the finish line or in the sense just what to put in more in terms of experiments.
15:39:10 Also like all the development that have been in the last decade, they are, you know, they are a lot.
15:39:15 So and then there are experiments which then they become smart and they do much more than what they were designed for.
15:39:21 I mean, looka, for example, at the LCB experiment, he's doing a lot of like long leaf particles.
15:39:25 And it's not be physics anymore it's like dark sector or CMS is developing all these night triggers.
15:39:32 Nice triggers and reaching, you know, GV level. Nobody thought about it, right? And then so if you just said, okay, I give up CMS because he's looking at high masses.
15:39:41 Or who knew that we could be competitive with Bell 2. So I think it is a very tricky question.
15:39:49 And I mean, maybe for the theory, because the person asking the question has a theory background.
15:39:57 It's interesting to link this discussion to the popularity context of models that we were talking about before.
15:40:03 Because sometimes it feels like there's a there's a trend of This thing that we haven't, we have been doing for a while and it's a We've explored quite carefully, but there's still room.
15:40:16 Is not as attractive for funding it as your funding proposals, and this other thing that is coming up is something coming.
15:40:23 And it's a you know, a bunch of other a bunch of new experiments are coming up for it.
15:40:30 So there's a I think the challenge there is also 1 one is ask questions like this is to Do a bit of both.
15:40:37 So I think this is one of the, if one has to prioritize, don't prioritize one.
15:40:42 But prioritize a mix if possible at all. I mean, of course if they ask you what is the best experiment.
15:40:47 Does that matter right now, then you have to choose one. But choose experiments of various sizes and with various capabilities.
15:40:59 And maybe among the category of experiments that can do one thing, then select the one that prefers better.
15:41:03 Maybe this is one way of looking at the problem with, or with the, even the projections are not necessarily something that is really, because we don't know what will build experiments.
15:41:16 So I agree, it's a very hard question.
15:41:24 Or maybe or maybe because this is seen from somebody also from outside of our field. So maybe one can get the impression that it's in the sense that we are basically saying.
15:41:37 We have an infinite dimensional parameter space and we want to do everything in every way. So maybe it's also our responsibility to find a way to put together things, not just to say we need.
15:41:51 These with small and large and this energy range in that, that's very, I think this might be important.
15:42:01 And it's not, of course, because some techniques are completely different and so on. Just not to give the impression to the outside world, maybe you've said what is the one that puts the money.
15:42:11 That we just ask everything. But that matter has this problem, you know, you show here. A large number of orders of magnitude in mass company and huge way of even space experiment and so on.
15:42:33 Therefore, It's difficult but If we, if we give the impression that we are saying. We need everything.
15:42:43 Might be that then somebody else decides for us. I don't know, but, it's difficult.
15:42:51 I understand.
15:42:51 Hi, this is exactly the discussion we have. I think, we can also. So I'm in.
15:42:59 The exactly the discussion we had. Do we want to include this plot in the complementarity paper because it's so large and gives the wrong impression it gives the impression that we need to cover the whole parameter space but it's not necessarily the case it's not how we operate and I think we operate via going for simple and realistic enough things first so there's a lot of emphasis on the
15:43:21 QCD action because it solves 2 problems at the same time. So One, Let's go for our experiments that are.
15:43:29 And all gathering around that parameter space because that is interesting and here's where we need theory when it the theory community to help us identify those.
15:43:38 Most interesting and most robust. Places to look. Because of course if one goes on, I want the top left parameter space and I'm building an experiment this very expensive to do that.
15:43:50 I can't tell that person this is useless because maybe the dark matter is actually there. But it might not be as compelling as someone that is building an experiment that can, probe better.
15:44:03 Because we Right.
15:44:06 Yeah, I do not know if like maybe another approach along this line is instead of like maybe showing a picture this is saying just you know that matter is such a mystery we have just this information so let's look at the broader approaches right because these are broader approaches and independent reward recovery here and then they will give you more direction on where to look for then within the big picture let's say one of these boxes.
15:44:30 Then you have of course experiments that they are, you know, maybe they have unique characteristics for one part of the box or the other.
15:44:37 But maybe this is like maybe gives a bit more that we have a direction, let's say, okay, I start, you know, realistically as general as possible because I cannot predict, you know, all the parameters of, you know, 20.
15:44:48 Parameter space model, something like that.
15:44:55 Yes, but I understand your point. It's important to act in a way that we don't act in competition to each other because or try to coordinate even the request because it might come to a point where there is no funds for everybody.
15:45:08 Simply. This is something that I believe. This is something that we, I think, experience everywhere that's you cannot submit.
15:45:18 Endless requests.
15:45:24 Of course, input is welcome. Just there is. Open room for discussion now or later. You know, I was just saying that for example the wave like that matter is one example, right?
15:45:35 We are mixing that link and that link could also be, you know, a stronger case for both, I mean, for different frontiers.
15:45:43 There we are missing, you know, between that and the rare and precision or the colliders and I'm sure that there should be a way that we could, you know, collaborate and that will give further strength, right?
15:45:52 We one experiment you cover, you know, with 3 frontiers you're covering like so so much.
15:45:58 Why not?
15:46:04 I don't see more. Comments from the room so maybe we could Thank all the speakers of the day again.
15:46:16 Thank you very much, sir. The effort of preparing this addition of talks and now Katharina, if you already I would just leave it back to you or show the .
15:46:27 That's part
15:46:25 Yes. So I keep it fairly short because we would still like to send people home. Whenever they come.
15:46:36 So just give me 1 s because I think I'm in the wrong zoom connection. Okay, so I'm going to share my slides from a different computer.
15:46:40 We're back to I'm camera so I might look in the wrong place. Okay, give me a second.
15:46:47 Okay.
15:46:54 So you realize I should really blur my screen when I have a pile of clothes for my biking Oh, alright.
15:47:03 Let's do that. Okay. Now there is no Those things work for houses.
15:47:14 Can you now see the slides?
15:47:18 Okay.
15:47:20 Yes.
15:47:22 So I'm moving this. So let's keep going like this so that So this is an interactive input session talking about the forum is we weren't ready to implement the forum for the website.
15:47:36 Meaning a place where people can talk and discuss about what the relevant things and we have some ideas of what things would be.
15:47:46 At the same time, A forum doesn't work if it doesn't have users because then it's just a moderators that talk to each other.
15:47:53 So we' to take a step back and this is one of many, few times in which we will ask for input the community on how to make this formula.
15:48:04 So first of all, what is an internet forum? Okay, this is how to give the feedback. Again, I don't have it in the.
15:48:14 I don't have it on each slide, but you probably have the number by now. So the There's a general Q&A and then it's also actually 2 posts during this.
15:48:26 During this presentation. So in this final session we want to understand whether to have because we can also not have it.
15:48:33 And how to structure a foral part of the IV, and you virtual platform. So we need to make it useful.
15:48:40 Welcome and including and safe. So the main point is here we don't want to create an end or import something that isn't needed.
15:48:47 So we are not going to be offended if people say, I don't think this would be useful because we already have another way to do this.
15:48:53 To achieve the same goals. So be honest, let's see. So what's on in front of the forum?
15:49:01 According to Wikipedia, it's an online discussion site where people can hold conversation in the form of post messages.
15:49:06 It's not a chat room because it's not an instant messenger kind of thing. And it's And the generally it the It needs to be approved by a moderator.
15:49:18 So whenever you're posting, someone is looking at your post so that it reflects community guidelines and code of conduct and then you get a conversation called a thread and there's different boxes where you can put different threads of different topics.
15:49:36 A bit of history. It's something that was, very old. It's a bullet in boards.
15:49:42 But I think I'm too young to actually have seen those things. So some popular forms that you probably have seen are stock overflow.
15:49:49 I mean, anyone who is doing any kind of coding probably has picked information from that. And I was looking for dark matter in Stack Overflow and there's a few questions that are interesting like the color map used for dark matter simulations.
15:50:04 There's been someone who answered, interestingly enough. So you can ask programming questions about that matter on Stack Overflow if you like.
15:50:12 Another thing for people in the UK, this is the UK tax agency has a form so you can ask questions about tax.
15:50:20 And some expert will answer and this idea of someone expert that can answer is spending some of their time doing a service to the community.
15:50:30 To answer, this is something that we would like to implement in our forum. Other forms is the next tours because this is using for software that is very similar to the one that we have.
15:50:41 So it's, our technique is just about, operating systems and new technologies.
15:50:51 There's forms where you have, where you talk about the specifically not releases and there's beginners questions.
15:50:59 This is another thing that would be interesting for us saying. I don't know who to ask. I want to ask a beginner's question.
15:51:04 I'm going to ask there because this is the space where it's safe and people are not gonna judge me for asking a beginner's question.
15:51:09 It's fine to do so. So sometimes people will think, oh my gosh, this is stupid.
15:51:13 No, this place is. It's good for, stupid questions, running, not Western stupid.
15:51:22 I think I might have run out of battery, but let's see if I can do this slides at least here.
15:51:27 Before I left the dice. So why would people go on a dark matter virtual forum? Nightly.
15:51:34 It's a place where newcomers to dark matter research can ask questions, find out about recent cells and find collaborators.
15:51:41 These are things that might be possible. But it might also be that some students or some newcomers want to start new collaborations, what to go beyond what they have locally.
15:51:51 And want to ask ask around. For experts, they can answer questions that can see what the community thinks of the research and results.
15:52:00 And they can create and see collaborations and this is including funding opportunities. So if there could be a place where people say I'm I want to apply for this grant and I need a collaborator does this because they complete.
15:52:12 My expertise, do you want to work with me? And this of course, requires a bit of care because not everyone wants to tell others that they are applying for giving ground.
15:52:23 But it's a matchmaking platform could be also useful. So now the question while I'm going to be, plugging my laptop in is, Why would you use a dark matter virtual form or why would not use other, not a virtual form.
15:52:43 So I'm going to start in the poll here. So if you go to. The.
15:52:48 The slides. This, though, you will see the the forum. I'll give you a few seconds to.
15:52:55 Do that.
15:53:15 Sorry, Katharina. Are you see there?
15:53:17 I'm disappeared behind the screen. I'm still there.
15:53:22 You have time to do the enter feedback in piece if it works, hopefully. Alright, I'm talking back.
15:53:38 Right.
15:53:44 Just checking if anyone has done anything. Not yet. Well, plus questions. Okay, that's a good answer.
15:53:54 So is there anyone else who wants to give an opinion on why they would use this kind of form?
15:54:03 I see people working on their mobiles. So, yes, they are. I think something.
15:54:06 Okay. Thank you.
15:54:36 I'm seeing an interesting answer here. Okay, sure. I'll share that screen later. Hmm.
15:54:46 But, so someone said to find answers to questions I might have. So having a question and answers.
15:54:52 A kind of exercise among people. Would help. So having like short pieces of knowledge about dark matter, especially for beginners, that could be another way to use it.
15:55:03 And that's Darkmathstack overflow. That's the. That's an interesting idea.
15:55:10 Okay, so I'll move on to the next slides. You can keep giving ideas. If they come up to you, I'm not going to.
15:55:17 There's a few more days on the of the so what we thought about, this is coming also from the remote, 2021.
15:55:31 So the mindset here was different because we got stuck at home and we thought about the internet very much.
15:55:35 So. This is where the idea for the dark matter virtual form came from. So the, it would be a form with fads and popularity functionality.
15:55:45 So if anyone has used bread it it's a bit like that that you can upload questions or.
15:55:51 Answers the appeal first. I'm not thinking that we have as many will have as many threats as This is possible.
15:56:01 We're using PHPPB as the technology behind it. And the possible categories here that we thought about our discussion of recent results.
15:56:10 Ask an expert. Where the experts are from theory this is something that we coordinate with you cup about experimental techniques.
15:56:19 So this is probably answering a question that we had earlier. That the if you want to know about the such and such technique and the get some information, some common information, some point there's some good lectures about.
15:56:34 Okay. So, the, IS, the, the, sensor that someone is using, you can find it.
15:56:38 You can ask the question, and then that matter software including WhatsApp to solve my problem for example I don't know how to calculate the relative density and I need the line on my block.
15:56:48 How do I do that? And the other seeking collaborators. So I'm going to now.
15:56:54 Point another like start another poll. Oh, wait, is, is, is anyone needing more time for them?
15:57:10 No, seems not.
15:57:04 Why won't you use an internal form? Because I can't do 2 calls at the same time because I'm not paying for Okay, good.
15:57:14 And I like that there's now 2 or 3. Feedback that is more critical. So let's go through that.
15:57:24 Cause I agree with this.
15:57:26 So. The sustainability of the form is something that is important because if people don't use it, there's no point in having it.
15:57:34 And this is connected to the other comment that is we need to make it established. Because otherwise the waste of time for the moderators and the people posting it.
15:57:43 So what is the threshold for establish and how to measure this? These are 2 different, these are 2 different related topics.
15:57:51 My take is that if you, then it's making it's useful for someone posting. It depends a bit also on the quality of the posting because if it's someone, hey, I have a new paper, look at it, it's great.
15:58:08 Yeah, good, but. Maybe it's not inclusive as it could be if everyone put their own paper there and that would be like more than one post a week what is people's feelings about this?
15:58:22 I mean, what do you, do you have any idea in the room or on Zoom? When would you consider a for a established or some website useful?
15:58:36 Hmm.
15:58:34 There are people nothing but I don't think anybody has. Tot about it. Or a matrix to define this.
15:58:48 Okay, but I think what these are good questions, what I think we will do before putting the questionnaire to a few of the people to the people that are registered to the main list.
15:59:02 Yeah, the, and see what people think about these questions. Then we can get some information and we'll probably think about some possible answers.
15:59:11 So it's multiple choice. It's not just the free text kind of thing so people don't have to spend too much time filling But you know, people's existence, I think, at this point.
15:59:22 So I'm going to start the next poll, but you don't have to do it now is what form toppings would you suggest and what comments you have on the existing topic.
15:59:30 So if you want to. Talk about that while I talk about the current. The topics that we thought about.
15:59:39 So the these are the details of the categories. So you could discuss recent dark matter results. And this would be divided in categories of experiments and theory.
15:59:50 And the implementation is that someone, so either an organizer or a curator of 4 member posts, peer reviewed paper that is recent.
15:59:58 And others can post comments and questions. And I think you are important is possibly peer review or archive because I think one of the risks that you have is whenever you open a forum even with some registration.
16:00:11 With some barriers to entry. You can get people that want to make fun of your forum or want to advertise their pills or something, you know, we all get spam.
16:00:20 So we don't want this to become spam. So we have to have some threshold that says.
16:00:23 This category of things ends up in this. In this forum not everything so this is a delicate point we can talk about in the next slide as well.
16:00:37 So one thing that we don't want to do is to make this the only place where people can talk about papers.
16:00:44 I mean, this is absolutely not something that we want to enforce or even suggest. Because a lot of the time the best answer to a question is by sending an email to the person who's done the analysis and getting that answer.
16:00:57 Now whether that answer is useful only for you or for others, that's the question. But in general, also there's policies in the experiments.
16:01:05 You can't. I can't talk on behalf of the at 4 6 otics conveners even if I'm there super expert of single analysis.
16:01:15 I will offer some information but I can't keep for example give me the 4 vectors that he used to make this measurement know there's policies for these kind of things.
16:01:25 So it's something that needs to be handled with a bit of care and that's where moderation and the that moderation is necessary.
16:01:32 And this could also become a papers explain channel when there's a volunteer that reads and explains the results.
16:01:38 One obvious of known experts. Finding the answers to questions and on my path aspect. Then there's the Ask an Expert.
16:01:47 This would be the stock overflow of that matter. Where no question is too basic and organizers and curators when an answer is posted.
16:01:56 If they don't know the answer, they can encourage the expert collaborators to answer. So this is the could be categories and pure experimental techniques in dark matter software.
16:02:06 And then the last one is seeking collaborations. Where are the inspiration is dark machines where it's now not as active as it was, but it was where groups of people they wanted to do dark matter.
16:02:16 Anything regarding dark matter with machine learning had a list of projects and they could join. And the organization, so IBM, you provides them help with mailless communication tools, possible contacts and helps finding it.
16:02:29 Like making the ground fertile enough for a collaboration and then step out and then the collaboration goes on by itself.
16:02:36 This is not something that could work everywhere because Publishing can be competitive, so this most likely will be limited to projects of interest to the community.
16:02:44 And but also it's a fair to say that the more established researchers will already have a network to find contacts.
16:02:52 And they know how to contact so this kind of. Seeking collaboration probably. Targeting collaboration. That involved early career researchers.
16:03:00 So how it's a way that to lower the barrier to entry to collaborations.
16:03:06 So the final word and then, I think we have a few minutes for discussion. For anything internet, it's important to think about inclusiveness and safety.
16:03:18 So first thing is no question is trivial. And the second thing is that there's a lot of things that can go wrong in an internal form when you find them on the Wikipedia entry, so trolling the people that are just registering themselves 3 times so they can say the same thing 3 times.
16:03:34 Someing, people getting angry at each other, so we don't want any of these.
16:03:39 So you need to have code of contact and it has to be a fortunate moderators. And the code of conduct, this is based on the experience they had on very public slack.
16:03:51 Slack is just a No, more of an instant messenger way of threading discussions. It's risk, there's the risk that some people will dominate discussion because they have more time, for example, and then others will be discouraged to talk because they see that this person is talking all the time.
16:04:08 So it should be possible for the mother just to tell this person without the person getting offended please leave space for others And this also is a question about excessive advertisement for a given theory or your experimental results.
16:04:21 If someone comes up with a especially non period. New theory and wants to push it over. This can get difficult to handle, you know, for.
16:04:31 So this is something that one should handle with care. And moderator should be able to approve the post also to prevent.
16:04:40 This can be time consuming, but it's something where curators and volunteers can take turns and the senior organizers will take care of the more controversial topics where you have to say no to someone that is.
16:04:50 Higher up in hierarchy of your experiment for example. And then there's, users should be registered to post.
16:04:57 So somebody of 20 should be enforced, so or kid ID institutional email. Could also implement other forms of authentication but complicated but possible but maybe this becomes too complicated like log in with your right, your off certificate.
16:05:12 You can do that. I probably wouldn't want to. It it brings in quite a bit of infrastructure that we have but I don't know if I want to put it here.
16:05:20 . So one useful thing is if we go ahead, I think we need the community's help to prevent things that could go wrong.
16:05:27 And while we think about the most common ones, there could be instances in which People have felt uncomfortable and this is something that we need input in, especially around the most important side.
16:05:38 I wouldn't want my student to be. I don't know, we sent private messages by someone in this forum.
16:05:45 Because they would not feel safe and that's something that should be like if you have some examples. Don't need to detail them, but if you know that something like that could be a problem or something else.
16:05:57 Then we'd like to have a list of ideas to prevent these things before we put anything live.
16:06:04 So this was the end of my. Second part about the forums so you can see that there's a lot to think about and a lot to do.
16:06:14 It might be that this is not something that we do fast. Because in order to ensure that this is useful and is good for everyone and this is actually adopted we need to put it down with a lot of care.
16:06:23 So I think a little bit of this and leave the poll open and the question and answer open. So if you want to discuss and then find it or even send us an email.
16:06:34 Let us know how this can be useful and if you're interested in it. The implementation is easy.
16:06:39 We have the tools. But the thinking behind it is the hard part. So thank you.
16:06:53 Okay.
16:06:53 So let me know if you have any comments about this in the next. Few minutes.
16:07:00 I'm afraid it's late on a Friday evening at least.
16:07:06 That little room for discussion simply because everybody started after a long week of conference. But maybe the message here would be that, yeah, this is something that we thought might be useful.
16:07:18 But we need some inputs. If you think it is or it might be and how mistakes could be prevented before this goes out.
16:07:29 Not only because the work which is behind but simply because it has to be useful in order to make sense putting an effort on it.
16:07:37 There are contacts everywhere. On the web page or.
16:07:44 On the slides. So. Which are kind of feedback you have, I think you are really welcome to send it.
16:07:51 Contact us any time.
16:07:57 I other experiences of other communities like like our own that have a forum. And just understand if this works or not.
16:08:06 At least for others.
16:08:10 Yes.
16:08:10 Hello, we do have this. We have this functionality and it's really useful. It's not it's Not only a forum, it's a e-group, so it's a it's both it's a main list that gets archived So you can read it as a forum but it also gets in your mailbox.
16:08:29 We can do that. Maybe it's overkill.
16:08:32 But this is internal, right?
16:08:39 Yeah, but it's internal. You have more.
16:08:35 It's in, yeah, but the collaboration is 3,000 people. So I think. So it's a I mean, if CERN has this kind of forums for cross talk or there's also this course I don't know how much that is used for physics topics modules for logistics topics But it's, some of the ideas on the topics are coming from that.
16:09:01 For example, as a I don't know how to do this thing. Can you help me please?
16:09:06 Because working on the sub detector number one and working on some number 2, especially on the technology or software, could be as difficult as working on 2 different experiments because there's a lot of complication behind it.
16:09:17 So you ask questions and some experts reply. And there's also shiftters to answer. The more basic questions about software.
16:09:28 So I mean, I think this in smaller. Communities this works. Oh, I don't know about other places in science where this is, this is done.
16:09:38 There were comments from the room saying that yes, this is within the collaboration. Or within an institution anyhow, so this makes it.
16:09:44 A bit easier if you want. Which is exactly the issue that we are facing. Though this
16:09:49 Especially the authentication. Yeah, that's a lot easier. You know who it is. That's talking.
16:09:59 I personally would find it easy or convenient. To have a place where to ask questions. There are some issues behind.
16:10:08 I want us to consider.
16:10:12 The only point is that if there is somebody else answering for instance, This is one problem. Another problem is, Maybe have them the rate of the.
16:10:25 Approve. So it depends if it is very active can be a lot of If it is not active, it's useless, so you need something.
16:10:33 Which is not easy. It's difficult to understand. One might try and see what happens. Yeah.
16:10:40 Yes. You are right. Our idea at the beginning was to eventually look for people to give answers that we take care of this, that it starts up.
16:10:50 Because as you said, if you don't get an answer, it's useless, but at the beginning there might not be people giving answers because it's not known enough or there are not enough participants.
16:11:00 So the idea was, okay, fine. At the beginning it's our task to find colleagues that are able to be an answer to these questions and ping them and ask them to, to please give an answer to this question and then it should.
16:11:11 Sustain itself if it works. So
16:11:18 Any more feedback on the topic is really welcome. And since this was the last contribution plant for today, I would really like to thank all of you for your contribution for the discussion for being here or online.
16:11:33 On a Friday afternoon. And really ask you again to participate, get in touch with us and give your input because this is really meant to be, as we said at the beginning, we do it for fun and it's meant to be a service to be useful.
16:11:48 To the rest of the community. So just feel free to come with questions and if you want to contribute, if you have students that like to contribute, you know how to contact us every.
16:11:58 Input is welcome. So thank you very much. And see you next time. You will receive emails from us at some point when you organize another meeting and feedback is welcome anytime.
16:12:08 Thank you very much.
16:12:10 Thank you. Went to close the meeting room.
16:12:16 Yeah.