WH13NW- Oscillatorium: That's fine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 4 people.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically, you might have.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: What did you?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Now they want to just talk.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I think.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Alright, maybe we should just get started. So we don't hear very much about Cpc. Although we know that there's a lot of good things happening in China, and we heard some talks, and I invited is now both at duty. Dows and I have enough to come and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: talk to us, so he also said, we can ask questions anytime. He'll be careful and answer, she said, but I think it will be fun. So let's learn about
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: progress and seats. Please thank you for the invitation. Can you hear me on the, on zoom.
Kevin Pedro: Yes, we hear you. Thanks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Thank you.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah. Again. Thank you for the invitation. Nice to be back and and see many colleagues here. So I will start with this picture.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I guess you all know what this picture is, right, the background.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And it's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: areas. Part of this is actually circular. And so we were many of my colleagues in Beijing things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Great wall, great glider, actually really have a historic, modern kind of a
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: meaning. And so this is something that really is very inspirational for my colleagues working on this project.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the right. Okay.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So I begin with little introduction for people who are not really familiar on top of things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and then I'll look at the signs, not only at Cpc. But also at Fcc. And I don't see
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: talk about status progress.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And also, I thought, it's important to highlight some of these
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: projects we're working on to make a future Cpc. A state of art continue to make a state of art as required by many in our
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: International Advisory Committee to keep R. And D going. Innovation going. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the machine eventually build will be state of art at that time.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and with the summary.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So back
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 12 years ago the Hicks was discovered as a candidate, as as he's like.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: both on. But actually, we know that it really completes a standard model in terms of bidding blogs and interactions.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also the confirmation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Now the pitch is in the back.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They give us rare opportunities to probe new physics through the Higgs, and there are so many unknowns, so many
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: things that we can look
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: through the Hicks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the idea of the Hicks factory is on everybody's mind. Many people propose it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: including my colleagues and her colleagues in China.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then the Hicks factory should also be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a factory for the top. Let's see, and W. Making it a truly a boson factory, and also top factory and long overdue for the top discovered right here in this lab.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So Cpc is designed to do just that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the the the ring that is, a hundred kilometer approximately
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: can also basically do the same left Ltc kind of scenario to be upgradable to a hundred TV scale Ppo in the future for the future generation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So right after that, September 2,013, we started the work, and firstly, design.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and R&D, and so on, and so forth.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So I've been showing this for a while
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that looking at the the interesting
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Hicks relates the events to the generic Overall Cross section. So we're talking about the signal to noise ratio 10 to the minus 10.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And it's very challenging to do careful.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: clean analysis. Some of the final states of the Higgs are not necessarily very accessible to us at the even hybrid Lgc. Even if we solve some of the pilot problems, so the precision is on the order of a few percent up to 10% for some of these channels.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and e plus minus, on the other hand, are actually pretty straightforward with these few processes where the Higgs is becoming fairly visible.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Also for E, plus minus machine. You know the initial state.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then you can reconstruct the Z. And the recall mass corresponds to the Higgs, Mass. You know there's a Higgs without even
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: trying to touch anything from the takes. Therefore you have.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and text, the attack sample without really touching it. So you can do very interesting, absolute measurement.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and with the hope that it can do 1% or less. So those are the numbers on people's mind before actually, people start to design the Higgs factory.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: No,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: proton accelerators and electron accelerators.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They're not.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you know they're not fighting against each other, but really helping each other out.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: starting with the bottom quark.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And right after Fermula discovered the the B. Cork with the States.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Cleo built Caesar and Cusp and Cleo, and architectures to study the Vdk that he discovered the B. Mason.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then, later on we have.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the first generation B factory and second generation B factors still studied learning a lot about the Ccm learning about Cp violation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: WZ. From Sps is cern
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and right after the discovery, and the left was built.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and to produce the Z on on the resonance and the Www. Pair. And really through through these 2 bosons.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: really established center model to another level, and can find limit the number of generations of fermions, and so on and so forth. The great deal has been learned.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But almost 3 years ago
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: what was discovered here.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and 12 years ago the Higgs
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we don't have a factory for these folks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so, as far as I'm concerned, we are due for a high energy e plus minus the glider that can serve as a Hicks factory, a top factory. So we can really prove physics. And it'd be great. We can do this. So we can really go up to the next level.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the September 2012
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: well, I was in Texas, my colleagues in Beijing altogether decided they want to build something big.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and they also want to do this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: E. And PP. Scenario for the next 30, 40 years.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and when I came back they approached me and say, Why didn't you organize this. So I was tasked to organize this activities along the way. So it's basically the idea started a bit 50 kilometer long. And the first concept was actually presented here called chinching drawing little circle. That's where the Cpc concept started.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and eventually they figured, why don't we make it a big make it a hundred kilometer, so all the designs are around the 100 kilometer long.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So it's a 3 ring structure booster and 2 storage rings with 2 interaction points and and 2 separate detectors. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically look for things of physics in the clean environment through E, and if yes, we'll go to PP and look directly at high energy. And so this covers a few decades and hopefully provide very nice service to the worldwide community.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So we took the time to advance
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Kickoff meeting a year after the concept was proposed.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then we did the preliminary conceptual design report
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: just to go through the process of design. The technology, and we weren't convinced there was no show stopper to build such a machine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: If you have the money.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And after that we established the First International Advisory Committee, and the chair is actually Yankee from
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: from Chicago. And you you know him very well, and we also have David Gross and and Vera bearish, who, I know well pressed during the time of the survey, as I see members who are very, very proud of him. And so you can see people from Argon, and and so on and so forth, helped along the way.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So 3 years later we published the first conceptual design report.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Not only there was a design of the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: accelerator.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and there were also a list of R&D projects
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: specified
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to to be carried out, so that the design specification will be met. A next level technical design report could be produced, and we published the Tdr. On Christmas Day. Release the Tdr. On Christmas Day last year. So this is a step-by-step approach. And it was widely welcomed in the community at that time.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So global high energy. Yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the concept of the Tdr, how does it correspond to the Lhc concept of the Tdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: What does it imply to have a Tdr. Now.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: yeah, I used to work at the time
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for this Cpc, Tdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the basic thing is that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: there is a design of the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: pigs factory or the Cpc accelerator
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the elements, the detector component, the excel components
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the specifications
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: would have been met
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: by the R. And D by the Cpc. Team.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: by generic worldwide community. When they publish the accelerator specifications. So the design is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: largely based on the technology has been demonstrated.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Is it ready for construction? It's a technical design report
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with a few deficiencies.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: For example, it doesn't have the site specific
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: design. So it's not ready for construction.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there's also that the machine detection interface basically 3 by 3 or 2 by 3 meters. That kind of a space is still ongoing short of those, everything else is ready.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So it's not an engineering design company and get something. Exactly. So it's it's it's a technical design with almost everything ready for construction. But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the site. And also Mdi, they are missing.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay, yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: think with
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so worldwide consensus
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: within China
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: there were 2 national forum that's called the Zhang Shun Forum.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: That's the national level. When you
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: are preparing for something big.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You get the top experts to this mountain.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you go there to meet 2 or 3 days and debate come with the resolution. So twice. Cpc. Was the best approach
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: among the scientists. So this is the grassroots approach that we were talking about the lunch. This is one of.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then the linear Collider as a Hicks factory is proposed by our friends in Japan
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also the European strategy update, pointing out that the electron positive didn't specify as a circular linear, but rather, it's collectively, it's the highest priority next quieter in the 2020 European strategy update, then Icpha has been releasing statements such as this, of course. P. 5. I quoted here, you know very well I won't made it
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: what we learned over the years
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: among the 4 concepts Fcc at Cern is also Ee and PP and Cpc, very similar and purely by accident. I draw Cpc bigger than Fcc. Because click is here. It's not that necessarily a distortion on my side. So it's the circular compared to a linear.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And you can see that in the subjects, design reports of of all of them
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The circular gliders are doing really well at the Z,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and they can do the 11 program in a couple hours.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and WW. The Hicks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then the top
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically would meet the capability of the inner kind.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So but there.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: why is there a factor of 4 different sort of between Fcc and Cpc. What's the main parameter? Which is different?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's all like martial arts. When you have one arm fixed to your body, you cannot fight very well, so we can strain our power consumption to $35. Okay, so when we release.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we remove that cap to 50 megawatts with upgrades. Then we are basic on topic. But your Td. Bar still is low. Yes, why is that? Yes, the Tt. Bar design is very preliminary. I don't think
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that's something that's that was spend enough time on that in the C. In the Tdr. It was, we have no intention to do a careful Td Bar design at that point, because internally, we're debating, should we do it or not?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then the IC basic said, No, you guys should do it. So we did. So it's a it's a homework. Yeah, is Homer half done? And you aware of that? It's the Rfp power issue? Or is it all also buying more
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: device. So see, it's a robust robustness in the dynamic aperture. In the exertion physics design.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You need a lot of simulation studied. Make sure you have 2030, sigma, you need to have redundancy built in, so that was not in there. And so, a lot of work being done at at the Ctr level. And so you can see, basically.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And these are the things we really want to do.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: This is something that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we'll take some effort and maybe stop, operate down the road. But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but this is the boson factory is the main thing for Cpc. I think our colleagues feel very strong. They didn't do it worldwide survey. But this is something we feel very strongly.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the 50 megawatt scenario you're you're posing that as an upgrade, not the baseline. So the baseline is 30 MB.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: That's a very good question to to bring out the thinking that we have
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: is that we look at the Ioc struggling
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to get international
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: contribution
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that you need to have agreement signed. Then
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Japanese government will put down this 50% to go forward.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So that's a struggle for a long time.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and he found this decided, hey.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we just go have 2 in 30 megawatts.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: International contribution can come later on we add more more parts, so that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: make a machine really to the full power.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But we can get started the low performance while negotiating. So we can get the ball rolling, waiting for international. So that's what there's a 2 step approach
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: in order to move from 30 to 50. It is just replacing some components, or how long
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: shut down. If you wish, you need to go from the one face to another.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: it's minimal
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the time most time consuming
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the part
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: are not rf.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but they are in
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the 23,000 magnets.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: bean pipes.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Sergi
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 50 megawatts, part of the sink.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Is it an Rf. Station power system, so on, so forth, that represent a small amount of parts that can be wrapped up very quickly.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So, as far as construction time is concerned.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: there's no.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you've so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: once money hits, we can produce them very quickly. Even better international partners will ship the parts to a site. We install it
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so the most time-consuming, large, numerical, and large number of parts would be our focus to get going
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so that we could get it done
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: as a first Higgs factory.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So that's what we're
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so, is it? Just August parcel place? I don't know if
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: just a power supply service and also electricity bills, too. Yeah, so those are those 3? Are the many things? Yeah, yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So for fix for a given point or given energy on this plot
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with the 50 megawatts, say at the Higgs, you're comparable to Fcc. What kind of power is Fcc consuming? Is it the same 50
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: didn't know it?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's just how much 30 megawatts you get between a factor of 2. For example.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: tablet papers are a little bit higher, because the ring is 10% smaller, and it's a little bit more loss in single term. Right? Yeah, there. There are some differences at that level between the 10% level. And it's good to have to design the cross check and and to really to verify and to do our end.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Can you ask one more question? So for fcc I remember for 50 megawatts of synchron radiation losses. The total
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: power consumption of a facility was 350. Something like that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Is it simpler for Cpc. I think for us our design. The calculation is slightly higher.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Are one of the homework that the team will do is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to compare notes with the 2 teams
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also to figure out ways to make the system more green, more energy saving, I'll talk about that later.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so the key here is that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you can see, as far as the fix is concerned, circled tighter wins.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also for Cpc.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Well, certain is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: busy with running Haidoomi, Rtc. Detector upgrades.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we can actually have us early construction. If we get everything approved
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you fully start construction in
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Twentieth
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 27, for example, and then in the 2,030 s. We'll have a new fixed machine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and it's a very large tunnel which I'll talk about later on.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the precision for the linear collider and and the circular collider and circle seems to give more statistics, and but for high energy a linear Collider wins with the plus or minus option. But the Cpc circle machine can be upgraded to a proton machine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: go to a hundred TV. And so we can also go to even higher energy in that sense. So so these are the considerations along the way.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the physics we're looking at
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: is to through direct or indirect approach, to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: go to 10 TV or even higher.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And basically the real go to look for new physics beyond standard model, whatever that is.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: through the Higgs, through the combined
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: constrain, all the Bosons, and later on with the talk.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also would provide other people who are interested in Qcd flavored physics, so on, so forth, with enormous amount of healthy data to look at.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then ultimately, future generations may actually have a Pb machine that they want to play with, and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I'm too old for that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So together they really can push to search for new physics to the limit that we can imagine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Also, this also stimulate lots of very good
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: discussions and development
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and theories coming and talking, and start to plan for things also very healthy to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to vote.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the physics? Many of these questions I won't read them
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that are really on our minds and our minds for a while.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The key is, if you look at where we are in terms of stability.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: in terms of naturalness.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also in terms of the fact that he's so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so peculiar. No structure, no spin, no electric charge.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And it does wonderful things, and it handles the mass, and dark matter, for example.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: participate in gravitational interaction.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and somehow people can imagine, have to do with math. So if the Hicks were an agent, we would like to interrogate him.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Do you know anything about dark matter of well, so you know, tell us we can be friends. So from that perspective.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You really want to have clean examination of the Higgs, and with many, many more W. And Z. Over constraints than multiple cracks. So the key is with this on the horizon, our minds with the precision the Cpc can bring in. We probably can do 10 TV
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: direct, indirect search, a naturalness to a 10 to the minus 4 precision.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we can really probe new physics.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: either through the Higgs, W. The Z. Or 100 TV PP. Machine down the road.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so that's the kind of physics we're looking at.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And theorists told us, percent precision on the Hicks, we're better. And so we said, Oh, we probably need a meeting or more.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Hicks. And so that's where the design started. So these are described in the Cdr
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so these are the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: sensitivities compared to the Heidelman, Ltc. In terms of fixed coupling.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also looking at sensitivities to to new mass scales for new particles and the smt space in terms of improvement for the electrode measurement.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also the physics, white papers of the robot being published.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the flavor is almost done, and new physics not shown here, but it's also being worked on.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so theories and and experimentals are working together to to understand these part.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So through a this looks like a 20 parameter
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: standard model. You have T. Fit.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And looking at the significance with the Cpc data.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and in many cases you can cross 10 to the TV sensitivity, in some cases even more
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so, it looks like these are something we can anticipate to have sensitivity
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and to probe beyond the high domain. Lgc, and so physics-wise in all fronts looks like it provides very, very exciting opportunities.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So almost all of them are very, very similar results from Fcc. The paper that the Fcc. Did with the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: European study. Right? Yeah. The European strategy. The Cpc. Also contributed white papers along the way, and it was a worldwide completion of things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and by and large, very comparable. And there were some differences in terms of statistics of the sample. For example.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Fcc. Will start with the Z first. Yeah. The wrong plan is RAM plan, and the Cpc plan is to start with
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Higgs first intermittently with the Zs calibration. We're adding some samples for for science, but focuses on the kicks. But but Fabiola has said that you know the Z
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: operation at the sea would be very shocking very short just for calibration, and then go to the Higgs.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, I was in Latio. I think that there will be a lot of pressure to to go to the Hicks. I was in Latio last week, and there was also interesting discussion. So fear is wonderful. Zee, and some other experimentalism.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, let's get the Higgs, and then some other people say, Wait, wait, wait, wait! We don't have the money yet. Let's do the Z. Then add money, and then add to the hardware. So so these kind of occurrence are sort of together now.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but as far as the machine is concerned, I don't think they will have to do anything
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Fcc. Would be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I don't. I mean from Hicks to Td. Bar. Yes, they have to do upgrades to the Rf. System.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay, so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the outline of these status and progress.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The Cdr. Was released 2018, and, by the way, Fcc. Also released on the same time scale sometime in 2,019. So, most importantly, we outlined the R. And D program, the critical technologies, both for the accelerator and also for the detectors
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and beyond the Cdr. The design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: has been constantly improving.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Yvonne is basically demanding the team to jump.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: find always to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: all possible ways to increase the velocity.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so that our Cdr. One meeting Z. Now in the Tdr. Becomes 4 million pigs. Sorry that now becomes 4 4 million gigs. So so the signs the physics will be better than the graphs I showed you earlier.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: R. And D is being continually pursued. Thanks funding from different funding agencies.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And also, I have. It's been building a 6 gev. Light source.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And with this advanced light source so many of the components
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: were actually being built and tested and put into the new light source. So it's great to parallel to have.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So, as far as the CPU is concerned, the majority of our
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: are completed
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Tdr released. This is excel. Every Td detector is yet to be released.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And again, we always think Cpc is for the worldwide high high energy community.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and always the group engage in international collaboration sometime could be challenging
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to do that, given the geopolitical situations. But this is always our mind, and most of us are trained in the Us or trained in certain. So we are quite open to to international collaboration.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the thinking is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: TV, new physics, 10 TV
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Higgs precision 1%.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You can see that we didn't think too much about the Z and Dublin, we, we were so focused on the so what we need in terms of a monosy is this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and if we have 2 ips 100 kilometer long, and this will be the machine operational scenarios. I have more details later and in terms of detection. Accelerator,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: distributations in terms of detectoristics are shown here and back and forth, and we went and tried to do corrections. Eventually they came up with these numbers.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I have another table. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically started with a Hicks at 240 run for 10 years getting 4 million Higgs.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then Zeke, 2 years and basically get this many Z's.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and it's it's truly 10 to the fifth times the level one program.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and then the W. Of course, we can switchable to get some of these early for calibration or for physics
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and to do to satisfy the community needs
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: couple of things here. I won't talk
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: about everything.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: One thing is very interesting is that the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: construction costs in China is still very low.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so we decided to build a big tunnel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It'll be tunnel, bear machine
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and in the tunnel, and vertically we will have explosions, and so on and so forth. So this is an e plus or minus
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and PP machine, and still with space.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so the the advantage is a after the E plus minus program, you can go to PP, you don't have to take time to dismantle
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: machine there.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And once you have PP machine, you can also
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically make a Ep machine. And with options, it really depends on future generations.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so the Rf stations are set up in such a way, both for 30 and 50 megawatts operations.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You have a bypass where you run the Z with only one of the 2 Rf. Stations on each side. And and when you go to the pigs you use all the Rf stations so that you can. You can maintain a software control system. You can do hardware changes so you can switch very quickly.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And my colleagues are even trying to optimize, and how much.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: how much money you invest on per fix and did. Optimization.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the minimum seems to be at 80,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we chose to do 100 and mainly for future with the Vp machine in consideration. But in principle, if if the money government told us, Hey, you've only 80% of money.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and this site shows that 80% will give you a better underground geologic structure. 80 will be okay, too.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So what fraction of the cost is the tunnel versus the rest of the machine for just the people. C minus.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: See that again. Sorry. So what fraction of the cost is the tunnel cost versus the actual machine cost with the magnets and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the tunnel causes about one third one good, one third
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 40%
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I see quite different from Fcc.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Thoughts are more than 50% as a tunneling cost from what I understand. But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the tunneling.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the construction has to be site specific.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah. You also have a very big tunnel, too. Yeah. But you have to do engineering study to really to fix that right now. Now, you just have an estimate
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that's not in the Cdr. So I'll mention that's something we're going to work next step?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Can I ask a completely naive question? But having the 2 accelerators in the same tunnel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: wouldn't that have, you know, operating them at the same time. Wouldn't that have issues like with I? I don't know how you you know the magnetic
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: interactions or coupling up any way between them. There's no I mean, I have no idea. I've never seen 2 accelerators, but maybe it's done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They they
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: on our mind.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We totally ignore this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So it's a clean tunnel with just one machine on this side.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we choose on this side. For obvious reasons.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we can't place the inside.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The secretaridation will kill the next machine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: If this will be cross, talks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: damages, and so on, so forth. Something has to be done to be studied. We didn't touch this at all.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so that's the outer end. You're saying right?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I was thinking, we'll talk about this later. But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you said, this has there has to be a specific study for the site.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah. So what are you? Let me talk about that later. Okay, yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I mean, I was going to say, the worst scenario is, you're allowed to switch off the electron machine or electron positive, you would have had the tunnel. And then you don't have to decommission the whole theory that option may be there.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, yeah, I'll be probably dead. I think that's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but giving future generation some choices. I think it's a set that's about twice the size of the Elecor, or even bigger.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Those of us who have been flying
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a 3, 50,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 3, 3, 3, 2.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I'll Kevin.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that's almost same size as that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, that's what it says. Yeah, it's big.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Well, everything's cheap in China. It's getting expensive. We may not have a choice.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: That is the cost growing. I mean.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So if you started politically, it's not correct for me to say this. But there's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: there's a
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: deflation
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: health economy.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So this is basically a blow up bigger table I mentioned already
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the account.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so basically.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: including the Td Bar in here also, these are the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: our station configurations, and that is very similar to the earlier slides.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: now, the accelerator R&D,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the polarized source for electron
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and high current deposit drum source. These are things that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: are useful for energy measurement.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for luminosity design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the Rf system
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically look at high Q value.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We actually borrowed heavily from the nitrogen coaching that that is vented in this lab.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and high powered couplers, so on, so forth, and also high efficiency class trump to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: convert electric power into microwave and and iron
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for cavities, for acceleration.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And also it's important to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: develop.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: then learn to manufacturing very low field diphos.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and they're not much stronger than
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: much more stronger than the earth's magnetic field, but need to be very precision, precise
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and vacuum system
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for the booster and 2 story rings is 300 kilometer, long
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: vacuum vacuum pipes, and that we need
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: very important to have in your coaching to assist in the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: virtual amendment
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: breaks, and so on, so forth.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and for the very
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: long scale.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The high temperature
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: super conducting magnets will be something
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for a future profile machine
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that is need to be cheaper
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and to build Dubai.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and it'll be very nice
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to run at higher energy, higher temperature. So that operational cost will be very low. So those are the things our mind and activities are are going up. So these are kind of showing the pictures of building these work
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and along the way.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the benefits of doing a light source in parallel designing. A Higgs machine is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: people are willing to write checks to fund the lab construction. So this is one example. The city of Beijing donated facilities for for the light source, and we took it as a long-term lab for cavity labor laboratory to do all sort of tests. We use that heavily.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also to have small Atf
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for testing systems of the Cpc.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So in terms of the art of cavity for the Collider.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: where we use the 650 megahertz the frequency.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and tested
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: several
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and against and required a. Q value for
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Cpc design specification. So consistently they are all about the specification. So the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so the specification are met.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and for the booster
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for the booster. And we're looking at these
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: pieces and and and compared to Cpc. Specification. Some of the Xf Yl and and and requirement are all met. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: pretty confident these are.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: these are achieved.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So these are all built by the icac lab or, yeah, these are in-house team, constructed
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and bait
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: surface treatment.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and with the help of industry and ship back to us and multiple devices checked.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: all done. And people have a good time, actually.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there are many times that I'll get phone call. And I say, these are good numbers. I rush to lab, take a look, and then they get some expert to it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Devaluation. So this have a seal
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that is done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We have big enough crowds. I can see that to do this testing, but can have multiple them. But I don't know how
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: of tits. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a mess of doing vertical things to save space.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But you can see they're also placed here in your lab, and this is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I have an main campus, and on the light source side.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: where you have these so-called Rsrf. The platforms you can. You can do more tests. You can put them together, janitor, long to do tests.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So so things are going up at this moment. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: sometimes it's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: joking. That's like cooking.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Try different things. If you taste right, I mean, does you measure? And you just
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: nobody says, doesn't taste good in this case not not a single one failed, which is very good sign.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Also, I think it's important to say that the Shanghai is building in Xfl and slack is building one.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and they're looking at the performance as cross, check
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and shine. This one will use the Cpc. Some of the Cpc art
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for construction.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so not only we have the light source, but Shanghai is building a different one, and the technologies could be used right away. And so by the time we construct this Epc. We will have a few years operating experience of an Rf system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: which is very, very nice.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So this is a
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: primarily we put everything together. And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you look at the booster, and which is more challenging to boost from 10 or 30 all the way up to 120 Gb.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And you look at the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: gradient, look at the Q value as opposed to require the value here, and also the Xfl light source and upgrades. And so this set of specification seems to be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: exceeds the Cpc specification. And so it looks very good.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and pieces can be produced and multiple units can be put together. So that's very good.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: also,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the accenture team
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: under the instruction for you phone.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They want to come up with 80% efficiency for cholesterol.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and which is which is very high.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so he found said, I'll find money
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and give you 3 chances.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You know, the first 1, s, one third one
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and third one needs to reach 80% efficiency from somewhere around the 50 to begin with, and in the first 4 to 5, 60, 70, and 80. And this is kind of a number that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: people guess that may be possible.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Actually, they work with industry to start to do this and and try different things and solve all the problems.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And 1, 2,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the second one reached 70. So 77, not exactly getting there, but getting close.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We're getting getting higher.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I'll come back to this later.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the experience at the the high energy photon sources that I had was building. And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: it's like this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and all the components.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And also the current
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: baking electron pause from Collider version 2
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: together. These also contribute to R&D effort.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And by building this, by doing this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we basically met some of the requirements specified in the Cdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then there are dedicated Cpc. The devices, for example, the dipole magnets, and we have a lot along the 100 kilometre long ring
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also booster magnets.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so so these are
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the prototype in a build being tested.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we did a statistics accounting, we felt about 90% of the work are done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we have 2% need to be finished that that's basically the current R&D program
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and international contribution collaboration will be important. And so we plan to have more after Covid opening up more international workshops in China or elsewhere.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you look at throughout the ring and the pieces.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Looks like
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we are making nice progress
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: of the R&D results, and we can base them in the technical design report, minus a few things which we specify.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the fraction
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: of of Cpc hardware. You can see
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Mac is a dipole.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's a big deal. It's fraction of what? As a fraction of the cost or normal item. So it's a fraction of the cost, I see, and we use that as
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: as prioritize the. It happens also heavily correlated with
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with number of pieces, and the time it takes to build
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to manufacturers and to put them together.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so you can see it's Magnus, the vacuum type.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: our power source. That will be upgrade.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's the third one, is.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's it's pretty high, but not as high as these.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So that's the normal conducting. Rf, yeah, in the in the rig itself.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Not for the this way offset detector coil
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: magnets so that they basically collaborate, they can access. Your objects will not be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: vulture that way.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's challenging. There's small space to do it with precision. And it was still there. It's it's it's a real thing.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So your booster ring is the same size as the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so is that I mean optimally, you want to have been a good size. It's 30. Gv. Max, right?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Maximum editing. Yeah, in the Cdr design. We put it at a tent.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the Exeter team
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: had enormous amount of challenge complaints that this is bottleneck. We can't really have a stable dynamic aperture to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: bringing up the luminosity, and then we we decided to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: longly injection to 30,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and our colleagues in Exeter are so happy, so happy.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then people thought.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you think I'm bringing in possibly Bigfield.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: bring up to even higher 60 TV to eject.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And the accelerator say, if you
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: give me that, will give you this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so now we have a team doing it, plus Bigfield a lot of going young. I won't talk too much about, but I can answer questions. So the poster is the one which has this very low
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: injection from the magnets you were talking about earlier, causing trouble, for example.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: optical.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the detector site
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we are doing
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: components, R&D.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We have not put together
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a new system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The reason being
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: in the Cdr. We borrowed heavily the Ioc design, Ild said.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also the Italian phases come with the drift chamber based detector they called the dreams, or something like that. It's a good design. And so so 3
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: concepts of systems were presented in the Cdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But we felt many
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: or much of the technology being included.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We're 1520 years old
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: by doing components R&D,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: they build knowledge bases. And we can use these to design a new system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and which could be cheaper, which could be stupid, capable, and and do things. So so we did different technology of the vortex in terms of
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Hv. C. Models. And so I and different technologies of the Pixel detector design.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we took it to Daisy for the test being run and looks like we're reaching
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the designed specification
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also for particle id hydrogen id.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Italian scientists came up with this cluster county technology to really increase the capability to identify. P. 3, pi separation
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and some testing results and proof type. It seems very promising.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then the Tpc.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: especially for the 0. And there were some pile of issues at the at the Annual.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and that we try to with Pixel Readout. We try to minimize that effect. So that has been worked on as well. So these are the basis
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: even though
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: many details need to be worked out. So these would be the basis for a new detector system. We call the force defect detector concept
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to be presented again, a forthcoming technical design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: reference, technical design for detector.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Then 2 collaboration. You have 2 Ips, right? But 2 Ips, the the Iac. And the Cpc folks always felt
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we are not going to finalize the detector design ourselves.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we'll wait for for the provo, then call international collaboration to design a final system. But we do are in the. There are 2 of them. Yeah, there are 2 of them.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but if you know of one of those to the government
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to build this machine, let's say next year we go to the proposal. If the detector design is missing
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: technical level, we won't get it. So we are doing a reference technical design for the detector system
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for one of those, or for both.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: just what was to demonstrate.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We can do it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we can tell the government well, the reason why I ask, I'm asking, is that is there an idea that there will be international collaboration to build one of the detectors? Yeah, at Kkk. There was that style of Beano that was Venus 12,000.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And it's true, and our colleagues felt strongly, won't be China versus everybody else. It will be mixed. Yeah. So so that's what this is. Just conceptually, the Tdr said. It's my government requirement. But when this is approved, collaboration may be designed by the collaboration, so everybody has to say
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so. So that's the idea. In this case
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the conurometers are quite a bit of
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: crystal based. I was testing done at Cern back in October 2,022,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also there were
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the computations
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: formed for Collider, future colliders, and Cpc. Was chosen as a test case to use the system framework. And so this was done in Bologna
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the first meeting actually
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: working together
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: among the consultative experts.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: in the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Cdr we have
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: they?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I would based
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: silicon based. It's idealic. And I think this ideal concept comes from our Italian colleagues.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and this first concept will be quite a bit of crystal based
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to increase the energy resolution and try to preserve the pfa.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And but this yet to be finalized, we're working on a very tight schedule
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: coming back to the green, to the energy, saving all those things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We begin with the light source
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that will build a solar farm
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: here.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so basically produce to megal ones
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a power over role.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and I have decided not to manage this. Contract it out to a third party.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we pay them fees and to buy the power, but they they own the system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so for the Cpc
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: how you faces electron energy recovery systems
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then reuse the hot weather, water, and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and other power, recovery schemes are being looked at.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and there were good ideas and bad ideas, and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so good things we are able to to debate on these things post ideas. So we'll learn quite a bit, using the light source as a test bed to do several
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: innovative try
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: sight.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we over the years we've we've been to near 10 different sites.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but in the Tdr. I set up a Tdr. A document.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We presented 3 sites.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and some details and and laboratory design, and even
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the ways to do tunneling.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the first sample shown here is a Tbm
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the construction in the diameter of 6.5 meter. And you can see from here here is really big. It's basically a base 350 in that sense.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: of course, for
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for future, for really to estimate the cost.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the we need to do very careful.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, engineer, instead.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so these are preliminary drawings to show excess
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the power stations, and so on, so forth.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: in one of the site I don't remember which one is this one
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: tdr, so this Tdr is is exit under Tdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and there were 3 reviews.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the first review was on the technical system in June last year.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the visa was hard to get by, and and flight was very normal. So we decided to do it in Hong Kong, and thanks to Hong Kong
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: University Science technology, hostess
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the and we have the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Frank Zimmer met as a chair.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and that was that was done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then the cost, the cost of 2 parts broke into 2 parts. One is the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: construction engineering cost.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so that was estimated for these 3 sites. That was done by a domestic Civil engineering team shown here
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and reported from this team
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: was presented to a panel
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to a panel
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: international panel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and which in turn report to the cost review the International Cost Review Committee in September.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And and this panel of this review community focused on the cost of the technical system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and they don't review the construction cost
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: or the engineering cost.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then the final review was done by the International Advisory Committee.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and eventually all committees endorsed the Techno design report. So this was done over a period of almost half year.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Tdr cost estimate was 36.4 billion R and B,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and and it's about 5 billion Us dollars.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And of course, this does not include very powerful cost that's made on the engineering that can change quite a bit.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so this includes the tunnel, but not the experiment. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: this include the experiments include you textures.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I'm sorry this is. This is only the Tdr include the tunnel, but not the detectors. Okay, yeah. But all the technical components are just the shelf, just the physical tunnel. I assume it's just a physical tunnel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's a physical tunnel and not the Americans anymore. It's not not not very expensive and and luxury decorations.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah, no, but the this is not just a tunnel. It says it's tunnel plus the machine.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So this is this was released. And a third of that is you said approximately, the tunnel cost
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: okay, so 32, 40%. So it's 3 billion or so.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 3 billion.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: This is 6 bill, this is 5 5 to 60, this is 6 bill. So 2, bill, yeah, yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: this does not include the label. Is this correct?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: He does
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So usually.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we say that in the Us we include the labor in Europe. Usually the labor is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: it's assumed to be there. So how is this?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I mean, you assume this is contracted out to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so everything is accompanying polls.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: How much they charge you!
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It is done and they provide the labor.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It does not include the lab scientists and engineers for the machine for the machine installation. Everything is not labor. It's not laboratory staff server
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that's different.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But for any new project you need a lot of new
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: labor, right
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: engineering level. And that's not including.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So just remind me. So all sites are
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: using this blasting technique. I mean, the cost has to be based on some mechanism for
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: creating the tunnel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the tunnel part of cost so, and I thought I saw it's going by fast for me, blasting sites blasting in granite
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for all 3
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: sites. Is that way? Yeah, the the for the tunnel itself.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: if I remember correctly, there were. There were 4 Tbm machines
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: operating
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: concurrently.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so like by quadrants, it's like.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then old access point will be blast
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and layer by layer, layer by layer
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and control blast.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So 4 phone machines and then blasting
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: play. Here
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Tanshah happens to be a provincial capital, where some of this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: largest of the best Tbm machine built.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They very much like to use that I mean
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the high speed train in China, some of them
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 2 thirds to go under the the through the mountain. We were done that way. They'd be very experienced to do that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: This tunneling cost compares favorably with the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: tunnels for the trains and other things that the Chinese that they'll test
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: cheaper delay. High speed train. There is also a requirement. But this just build a tunnel is minimal.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: If you need more preparation, the cost of a certain goal.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: other than the machine, of course you you the what's included in the prices, the cost of the machine. But if you put it at any of these 3 locations? Are there already facilities that can support it in terms of the power infrastructure? You need
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: private infrastructure. You need office spaces. You basically need to build webs outside. That's a good question. Those are not included. The infrastructure the local government has provided in addition to lease.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we are assuming either they have the infrastructure or they will provide infrastructure.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And and so of course, you need to think about are there? What kind of price you pay for for the for the electricity. There are multi-layers.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: depend on. It's industrial and residential, or some other subsidize the electricity cost. This is something has to be worked out with a local car. That'll be one of the factories deciding the final summit.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I mean the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: No.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the short answer is no.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and that needs certainly need to be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: optimized. The thinking is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: if, when the when the project is approved.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the light source crew
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we also have a branch in Dunguan we are doing. We're doing a neutron simulation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and their construction's done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They're doing
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: phase 2.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: When this approve is 2 is done, and Nicole put together 500 together. These are top notch
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: people who have experienced building things then contract many things to engineering firm to do this. So the these are very experienced in the past. Whatever years, 10 years we've been actually doing things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: building things, conditioning things, running things. And so this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: this is very good. So if you have the project you delay by 10 years, these people just forget what they're doing. So this is a good time to do this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But there will be a shortage. Yeah, to be honest.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay. So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so this is the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: they review reports. I won't read them. And they they are available here, you can certainly go look at the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: technical system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: take the causal technical system.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the the review comes out
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 5 billion.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But they're also plus minus
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 2025% and certainty.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the government would like to see uncertainty less than 10%.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: eventually, what we should do is we increase price by 10% or 50%. So that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we'll have our
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: band of 10% to satisfy government requirements.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So this cost certain, will change probably on the upper side a little bit.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But in communication with the review community we have this understanding
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and pretty generous because people are were privately talking about
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: this error. Bar could be larger, but you can make it smaller by going up than your cost price, so that this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: cost over
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: becomes less like. So that might be a way to do.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Basically, you'll
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: request for approval. You ask for that. Enough money
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: instead of low volume. And yeah, getting to integrity.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the things that being developed now.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we have a reference
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: design for the detectors system we called reference design at Tdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: as it's ongoing.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we also begin the engineering design towards the Edr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and that is for
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: really to make the system ready to build
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: after it. Finish the Edr
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that include the site, specific
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: design, construction costs and and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and automation, so on, so forth.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we also need to finish the remaining R&D work
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and mass production systems, which I'll show it a bit.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there are also some advanced studies being pursued, just making sure that the machine will be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: continually proved to be sealed. The seal art.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So we are really positioning construction, starting in 2,02728.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And with that goal we work very hard doing these things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the first thing is based on
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: last 10 years.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: R&D on detector components, detector technologies.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: especially on a C mouse.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: sensor
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: optical detection for em calorimeter.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for for example, in
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: typical design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that you have in detection, like iod.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the conorometer resolution are shown here.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We felt
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: this is very limiting. If we want to do clever physics, we only do a lot of things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And if we use fiber and single electron single gamma pi 0, we can bring them to about 3% or so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and still preserving pfa, and so on, and so forth. So.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so in this case we are looking at a preliminary configuration such as this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so they can track her with the pixel and Strip
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Tpc. Or drift chamber
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with the cluster content for party Id
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Pf. And Hello, amateur.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and possibly having a magnet that's in between the 2 kilometers, and we may, we may regret this, but we are still debating solenoid build and people designing this solenoid. Think it's it's hard designing pfaometers think that's too much into the material.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so so we are. We are debating on this. And we haven't settled on this at all.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so basically silicon. Combine it with a tracker, wiretark or Tpc for better tracking and piv.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Speaking my separation for
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for flavor physics. There's a lot of people who do flavor physics in China with all disease.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: an ecu with crystals, with good timing and and shower profile for energy, resolution, and same time. Pf, capable.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so, all the simulation work being done, and try to try to understand this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And this is going on, and there's no final conclusion.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: A lead glass inch camera.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yes.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: fits
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: is.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah. There was some. There was some testing data, I think, a little.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They they try to avoid the silicon sensor. And and and this fine, you know, Silicon Constant is kind of a concept that wind up very complicated, very expensive. And maybe this approach will will work. So we're putting things together, doing the simulation. Now, we have the testing results.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the engineer design tasks.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the booster magnets
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: injection 30 and and and injection into the storage ring 120,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the range the magnets and their need to be understood, and the quality need to bring out.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Mdi. It's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: it's the probably most complicated Fdi study.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there were designs, but not satisfactory and constantly going back.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: try to figure out how to put this thing in?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And how do the detectives work in a very tight and and radish and hearty environment will not interference with the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: actually is a physics, design and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: things. So I'd like you to leave it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And the theme optics would be different. And so there's a lot of coordination going on
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and control and timing.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And this is something. It's also a weak point in the Tdr.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And a concept and preliminary study.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But scaling from the light source 200 kilometer long is is a big extrapolation. For example, alignment, installation
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and local alignment, global alignment and a automatic system and and is being designed conceptually available and tested.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we'll be also further tested on larger scale. And so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so these are the things on the engineering design. In addition to the construction site.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: When you say accelerator control and timing the timing part is specifically sending control signals to different parts of the accelerator at the exact same time. So it changes in.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I I just, I'm not. I haven't thought about this ever. Yeah, it could be local. It could be global. And it's needs to work out to to
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: figure how to how to synchronize the control
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the operation. And so it's it's something that that is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically clean.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: basically, for example, even a perfect
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: conceptual design.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you have temperature change for 10 kilometer.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They have 10 stations and 10 kilometer per station, and the fiber change in the temperature will change by point 7 nanosecond. So to help you optimize what a temperature tolerance, all the all the detail needs to be worked out and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so awesome
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: off.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So we what we do is in the Edr work where you do have a mock tunnel
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we have pieces. We we set out these things. We're gonna do run tests. Figure out how to do the installation, how to understand that infrastructure. So that would be a new lab that we play with these things next 2 or 3 years to understand. Quite
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so Cass has funded
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with a hundred 20 million UN
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a platform for past wavefake. Wavefield acceleration
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and using electron comes from the Vpc Collider.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there was one area that's empty. They put together and tried to understand
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the scheme to accelerate electron beam.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And they want to understand the cascading of accelerating electrons in different stages.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: then they demonstrate that that's gonna go work. And so that work is is going out. So this will be a backup plan for future Linux injecting into the booster.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the hope is to have even higher energy, so the booster will will have a smaller energy range to to accelerate the in particles.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The third try on the on the Crestron
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: just last month
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and actually came out to be very close to 80%, 70, 72%.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so this is the third one.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the team there. And experts. Actors say they witness the test. They say, Okay, we, we, we sign our names and we certify that's the case. So this efforts continuing with the goal to save energy, to have it more efficient. So this this be very useful. Even. You see, Pcs not built, as you see, will go forward, and this, I think, will will be big help.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the 30 Gb. Injection into the post store
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that completely predicates on this plasma wake field acceleration. Otherwise you need almost a kilometer. Long Linux.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We we do have very long relax.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's more than kilometer or something like that, right? Because at 30, Meg per meter you need to several kilometer long compared to 100 kilometers long. Sure, I'm just wondering because it costs.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yes, if you can build, extend your Linux by 2 kilometers.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you can increase your luminosity by Factor 4. Considering the overall causes deal. But if you can build possible big field, it can go a little higher, with much shorter ones in the long run.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: This may give you an even better mission.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but that's something worth doing. Well, power is an issue as well right in both cases. I don't know, but I haven't. I haven't studied those part yet, but this is a concept. Many of these things we propose and and get funded. We don't have a hundred percent full thing before we
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: funding is approved. But sometimes they just say, this is a good idea. We should do it. They give you some money to do, come back with some encouraging result. And so that's quite encouraging. They don't do extensive reviews. You're really tired.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So this is also something
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: it's complicated to draw, but something
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: those of us who work on left we all understood. Slc, left.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: speed of polarization give us great precision.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Measure down the energy
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: calibration, how they get the Z. Everything blind shapes on so forth.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But the problem is that is, there's downtime when you build up polarization and you don't have a collision.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also for high energy going to from 45 gev. Per beam to 120 gev. Per beam.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The polarization.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: The buildup is very low, so deprovization start very low. Level.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Wouldn't give you a very good energy measurement on the beam.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So you need energy calibration, the beam to do analysis.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So in this case the team is looking at
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: injecting the polarized electron. To begin with
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: at high energy.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And if much of the progress electron
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: would be preserved.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: then through
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: depolarization. And you can measure the frequency. You can have a calibration at high energy.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So with that in mind, there's a program going on. And
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we're building a small plasma, Wakefield based damping ring experimental one.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And also we add student teachers and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and step
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: legalers and try to do experiments, to try to understand this process.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and hopefully, within
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: period of time. Before we start your operation. We can demonstrate this work so that we can do a polished source
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and myself. It could be physics. But for myself, I think it's understanding
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that we will have a good energy calibration at the machine with those video digits.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: also, you probably know that 2,008
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: solar Sun actually discovered the iron-based superconductor magnets
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and critical temperature 26 K.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And Ironbays is cheap, really cheap.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And then Professor Zhao, China Institute of Physics
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and set work record very quickly. In 2 months to 55 K
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Around this time
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I have Director E phone
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: when to talk to him
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and said, Can you imagine building iron based
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: magnets
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to do a PP machine? Give us 20 Tesla
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: title
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Hts iron-based, meaning easy to buy and cheaper to operate.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: he thought for a few days and called Yvonne back, said, I think there's a good chance. If we do engineering and science by a factor 1010 each.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: We can probably do it. So they get funding from Cass.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They worked for a couple of years.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then very quickly at this point.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Then, using iron tapes.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They build a 24 Tesla solenoid coil.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and then
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: lately 2022, and they build a 32. Tesla based on the iron-based.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay? So the temperature is still very, very low.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but at least they demonstrate iron based material can work. So what is the bores for this, Solomon? Sorry. How big are the bores for this Solomon? It's very small, it's very small. It's
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: my colleague showed me is like this. I should have put a coin in there. It looks big here, but it's it's tiny. It's a demonstration can work. I mean, it's very hard to you have to. You have to put this thing in between and forces to turn and and to to whine. And it's a very brisk brutal in this case. And but these demonstrations are going well.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So if it takes 1015 years eventually to make this into dipoles. Cheaper, dipoles paid may help us help Fcc PP, for example, help anyone who need strong magnets, so that part is still going on, and it's a national consortium.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They put together the best but 200. The best scientists engineer together to do this nationwide.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So if is, is using high energy organization to unite
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the the high temperature and and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: conducting the matter of physics to work together.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Mass production
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: magnets. There are booster magnets and also the glider ring magnets together, about 20 plus K,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we've tried to figure out an automatic system working with industry and try to build this and our designs and being reviewed.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And we're going to have a basic 100 meter long workmail and try to streamline this. So we can do this in automation. This not only will save us time, but also save the labor cost of a factor, for if this is successful.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: our cost estimate depends on this. So this is very important.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and also the the coating inner coaching for the vacuum pipe
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and straight ahead, Henry Karambi long. We also try to figure out how to do this automatic line
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and do things with the light source. We know how to do this, but they are very short. This is very long. I think this is about
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: forgot. This is so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: easily
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: tens of meters, and so we have to figure out how to do this, so there will be design and and improvement, and so that it can
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: as much ultimate as possible.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So a mock system
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: will be built out on the ground, of course, and we have a concrete.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we have different underground structures. Try to understand the effects of of alignment vibration, so on, so forth, and also the critical components. We'll be putting here. Many of them fake some of the real. We try to understand the construction. The assembly process will be the way to do it. Long.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 6 6 meter long
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to move around. And so we can really see, seniors, that practice it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Industry. There's a consortium in China, and the team is also looking at the international suppliers. And these components, already built by
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: local industry
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and spending from magnets all the way to electric from sources.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And there are good relationships going on and working with the industry.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the how do we go from here to get proof.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: China is following a 5 year planning system
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that China learned from the former Soviet Union.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and you can see the 15 to 5 year. Plan starts in 2026.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so they have
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: continuous through this 5 Year Plan.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: This also means that if you don't have your project approved.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: For the next 5 year plan you miss the boat. You will wait for 5 years
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and to to get another chance.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So we are
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: tasks. Actually, Chinese government sciences, looking at
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: list of major facilities
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to be proposed to the country for approval, for construction.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: trying the cast commissioned
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: several communities look at all different plans, the disciplines.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and for the for the group of Heinrich physics and nuclear physics.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we had 3 groups, 3 groups, experts reviewing different proposals.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: One is the senior people in China.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the second group is professional society.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and third group is international reviewers.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So here are the the rankings, the scores
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for different projects.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And you probably can tell the cedar access in neutrino program
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and pending is also dark matter programs. Sorry dark matter program.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And Juno's neutrino program.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And this is super.com program. And this is Cpc.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so Cpc was ranked highest with the lowest uncertainty.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the super or charm is the other accelerator accelerator project ranked here. And so you can see the real differences, multiple sigma. In this case
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: these are all very different size projects, and some of them are upgrades, both Juno and Panax, or just upgrades.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So they're much, much smaller than Cpc. So remember, this is nuclear physics and high energy ramped together.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and in principle we should compare accelerator to accelerator, even though they are different price, different scales.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but the the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But that's done, and and at the rate, at the request of the President of China sciences. So we asked for this.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and so the report has been submitted for to cast.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so so these will be input in the national selection process.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: How is it to be used? We don't know yet.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and but these are available.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: But you can argue, this is great. We should pay for Cpc. And some people argue, hey, you know, when you cannot afford the Mercedes, you can buy me the bike right? Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Cpc is so much more expensive than the fact that it's a yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so we're doing
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: these things.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and Tdr for accelerate was done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the detector reference design detector by 2,025, mid 25 mid next year should be done.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and we are doing engineering design
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and hope the end engineer design by this time.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the proposal time will be next year.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so next year will be very critical.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and if we get approved we'll be very busy
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: if they don't get approved. We have to wait for 5 years.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 20. Third, to try again.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: how long is the construction process?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 8 years, about 8 years, 26 to 35. The convention around 35.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Assuming we can do automation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Assuming you have a 4 Tpm. During the quarter.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so the tunnel itself. How much do you?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: 3 years? 2 years to come to installation.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Okay,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we're running over time. Sorry about this. Oh, that's my budget one and a half hours. Yeah, I will read this, basically in the end. I think.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: given that fccce is also very good project, and but certainly is preoccupied with the high numce. It takes time to get onto it. So if we are successful and we Cpc will offer it worldwide.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Heinrich, physics community that already takes factory. And so thank you very much. Thank you.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: More questions, maybe from zoom first.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Oh, there will be from the room.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: He's something quick. So yeah, go ahead, Tom.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: How deep is the tunnel, and is there a variation in the depth or the surface is pretty much flat. So it's the depth is more or less uniform. Across the the ideal
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: depth will be probably between 8,220 meters. That's the range you'll be talking about.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You can. There are times you cannot avoid hills, and you can have 200 meter over burden sometimes.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: so that's about it. That's very small. That's the major issue. And how many chefs do you envision? Or they?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's about 10, but don't.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: don't. Yeah, but it's probably intent. We make sure that it's not a 300 meter per vertices that spread it out.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: use some service space, and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but also you have roles. Things like that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and and local government will provide
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the infrastructure.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: It's not difficult here.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So the timeline for the decision for this to go ahead is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: same same as Fcc. More or less. So. 2027 something.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I think if I was pushing.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we submit a proposal
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: by 2025,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and the decision can come
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: from
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the Government any time after that.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And because this is such a big project. There's no precedent in terms of scientific project. It could be delays. It could be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: offer government
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: ongoing things and making decisions and also in discussion with local government where the site is.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: So it's it's gonna be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a lot of uncertainty on how long that will be.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Yeah. Yeah. So I was wondering if
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: son decides to go ahead with the Cce. What happens?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I'm too lowly paid to say that to answer tunnel.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I think.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I mean you asked the same question. I think if gave a talk yesterday and today to Sbc, also certain council, he's there. And being asked the same question, maybe more. I I haven't talked to him, and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but we'll we'll we'll compare notes when we go back. Yeah. I saw that he was given.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Be be my say.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: but his his team player. I think
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the general feeling is that if Cern
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: is funded, approved, and started digging.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: we just have to join soon.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you know.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Desmond.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: he's no house. A community of
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: technical capabilities would be beneficial to the community.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I don't think
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: there's any doubt about that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and that we're working hard. We're we're doing this
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: also.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: helping, sir, in many ways. Yeah.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and started acting out
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and looking at very seriously.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: heading
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: presidents from France, Switzerland, visiting Cern get noticed in Beijing, too.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and it doesn't hurt us either.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Friendly competition.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Any other questions
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: can I ask? Again I got another leave question. But when you said that distance, how deep it was! Was it? Is it like geologically, or is it cause? I would think that the the
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: at least, you know you go down the the cheaper. Would it be
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: like? Would, why would you want to do the same like? Maybe you can find a spot where there's nobody around. You want to tan on the outside of the ring in some semi. So only very
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the you know, middle underground. Is it not a possibility?
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I thought about this. And we actually talked about this having
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: go to a desert. It's built on top of the surface. You have to build, you have to build housing for it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: If you find
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: a location where you have a one single piece of very good granite drills through it at the surface, right? So it's where it is, right. It's where the granite is, and also you. You have your tunnel deep enough
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: that you can fend up any doubts for the radiation
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: for the proton machine. It matters quite eventually. Yeah, electronic. Yeah. So we we debate this. And and we argue interesting place. International things. We ask that
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: provincial governors to provide.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and surprisingly, to me, at least, the politicians are more excited than some of the scientists. Actually.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the idea would be that it would become like a national
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: lab like wherever the site would be some.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and hopefully with
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: with some
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: auto autumn.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: You know.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: autonomous decisions and and capabilities. Also.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I think
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: once it is proved, there are a lot of coordinations and and
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: designs
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to make it
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: such that international scientists would be able to come in here, live
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and to experiment and come back to for me to teach and make it.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: For example,
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the the government is making the whole island the high nut.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I don't know how big islands do you know how big High 9 is the island? I think it's it's probably as big as the Taiwan.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: They are with the visa for international visitors.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: and in 2 years the plan is
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: to wave
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: the visa, for everyone, everyone can go their work.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: And so so it's it's gradual way to demonstrate its openness.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: At least that's the plan.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I think, for Cpc. Wednesday of the site. There will be some ambitions making it a lot easier to come and go.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Intra help help China also.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Main.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: I can't say twice.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Interesting idea.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: Alright. Let's thank
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: course tight.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: There's few more cookies and coffee if you want.
WH13NW- Oscillatorium: you're leaving soup, like, yeah, like.