WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:21.779 WH11NE- Sunrise: You know me for those that don't know me. I am a researcher with the Italian Institute of Physics in, and I am a member of Cms. And of the Fcc. Project that I will discuss today. 2 00:00:21.830 --> 00:00:46.650 WH11NE- Sunrise: And I am a doctor of ferment because I came here for Cds in 1990. So some of you might know me today. I wanted to talk about the Fcc. You know that is a European strategy. We need to decide what to do next, but I wanted to take an angle that in general is not very much talked about, and that instead, I really like. 3 00:00:47.030 --> 00:01:07.789 WH11NE- Sunrise: and in the spirit of trying to find the charm in lower energy which is maybe not so easy. I hope that maybe I can give you a glimpse of all the possibilities that there are. So let's see if I can change this. 4 00:01:09.140 --> 00:01:34.579 WH11NE- Sunrise: Of course, what should come after the illuminasi which we are all now building for and preparing. We have a new European particle physics update that will have the big meeting at the end of June, and just recently, at the end of March. There were all the Inputs sent for this strategy from all the possible projects, and and for future Collider, just 5 00:01:34.580 --> 00:01:43.680 WH11NE- Sunrise: many, many projects on the table. There is a Fcc. Integrated project at Cern. But there is a similar project. Cpc. In China 6 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:53.779 WH11NE- Sunrise: there are Lunar collider projects, and the latest one is they called the Lc. Vision, etcetera Collider. At Cern. There is Neon Collider, of course. 7 00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:01.719 WH11NE- Sunrise: and there's many other ideas. So so all this has been submitted. And then the Ppg. Is really at work with that. 8 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:04.679 WH11NE- Sunrise: But what do we need? We know that 9 00:02:05.370 --> 00:02:15.030 WH11NE- Sunrise: the we have the 2 frontiers. This actually comes, I think, from us the energy and intensity frontiers, and that complementary in the search for new physics 10 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:16.185 WH11NE- Sunrise: and 11 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:33.509 WH11NE- Sunrise: If we have a high luminosity e plus a minus collider, which then has to be circular. To have this high luminosity we could do beyond the physics in various ways we can have indirect evidence. 12 00:02:33.510 --> 00:02:51.899 WH11NE- Sunrise: and this can be up to very high scale, and you will see how. But we can also have a very long list of direct discoveries that we can make that are complementary with everything that we can do, for instance, with unknown colliders. 13 00:02:52.483 --> 00:03:12.276 WH11NE- Sunrise: And of course we can explore the interaction of the Higgs. Some of these interactions with the lighter families are not still so explored. Some of them will be explored, and they are luminosity. But for some of them we might need another machine with a much cleaner final step. So 14 00:03:12.650 --> 00:03:34.519 WH11NE- Sunrise: we need to see what happens there. And maybe this type of machine would actually give a glimpse of the 1st generation particle. So there are many, many options. Very quickly the integrated program. We just had the workshop also at Fermilab. And certainly, you know, the idea of. That's why we always call it integrated program, because 15 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.070 WH11NE- Sunrise: it is, it is integrated fully 16 00:03:38.110 --> 00:04:07.819 WH11NE- Sunrise: in the, in the logistic, in the, in the building, in the thinking that goes in, how this machine is made, and also in the complementarity for the physics. So the 1st stage there would be a 91 kilometers Newton, in the Geneva region. And you see here, let's see if my huge mark works here in the Geneva region more or less 17 00:04:07.820 --> 00:04:14.800 WH11NE- Sunrise: they would profit from some of the accelerators already present at sermon of the infrastructure. 18 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:39.750 WH11NE- Sunrise: and the 1st part will be, we contain a P. Plus E minus machine with 4 interaction points. And as an E plus E minus machine, the way it's gonna be built is that it's going to be able to span a large energy range, and I will tell you later. But then the idea is that after the program of the plus E minus, there would have to be 19 00:04:39.990 --> 00:05:09.010 WH11NE- Sunrise: 15 years at the moment this plan to be 15 years, then we would move to a hydro machine which means protons, but can mean also heavy ions, and it could go to higher energy. Nominally. Now, I think the number used to be 100 now, with a smaller radius, maybe it's 80, but it depends on the magnes that we will have. And now it's fairly the same. 20 00:05:09.010 --> 00:05:12.350 WH11NE- Sunrise: And he said that they could 21 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:21.620 WH11NE- Sunrise: have the Cpc. Starting in the early 20 thirties. If they do that concern, jump directly to the Hh. 22 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:34.809 WH11NE- Sunrise: so this is exactly the strategy. This is above my pay grade by a lot. I know that they have a similar process to ours for decision, and they go for decision between this year and the next. 23 00:05:34.820 --> 00:05:57.359 WH11NE- Sunrise: I think that politically, there is a listening between the the 2, the 2 places, for now, until they start putting money and digging the the the idea is that certain in Europe, at least. Now, server continues to propose this machine 24 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:24.969 WH11NE- Sunrise: after the strategy, depending on what the strategy says, we will see. But we get to the strategy, for now we get very, very well along with the with our Chinese friends, especially Italy, as also the the detector we propose is also a a good detector for Cpc, so we collaborate. But of course you know politics and timing and money is something I cannot say, and certainly there are 25 00:06:24.970 --> 00:06:30.270 WH11NE- Sunrise: many options open. As I was saying, on the table, there are so many options 26 00:06:30.450 --> 00:06:37.429 WH11NE- Sunrise: that, whatever happens, I think that the community will jump in and optimizing. Let let's put it like this. 27 00:06:37.540 --> 00:06:40.571 WH11NE- Sunrise: That's as far as I can. Thank you. 28 00:06:41.620 --> 00:07:05.440 WH11NE- Sunrise: So last time they didn't get it like us, if you want right. So this time we need to see this time they are better placed this is what I understand. But then, again, geopolitical situation at the moment it's tricky. 29 00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:15.099 WH11NE- Sunrise: So if it's not in a 5 Year Plan business as usual. Fcc, if it isn't a 5 year plan, then you have to think about it. 30 00:07:16.158 --> 00:07:29.289 WH11NE- Sunrise: Okay, the agreement is that basically, if Fcc goes because you will open everything and they don't, they would come to work with the Fcc. And in principle 31 00:07:29.710 --> 00:07:52.430 WH11NE- Sunrise: there is no problem for us to work in case in China. Apart from the fact that that the lab in China will not be international, it's complicated from other point of view, not the physics, but the physics is, is extremely similar. So whatever I say, if you prefer to think of this, I speak for the physics. So so this is really, you know. 32 00:07:52.610 --> 00:08:15.149 WH11NE- Sunrise: it's complicated. And again, very much above my pay grade. We can just try to put together the best physics. We can. And I think that right now the important thing, for instance, is really the plus and minus low energy plus and minus, let's say, middle energy. Qtv. Muon collider adron collider between 30 and 80. 33 00:08:15.150 --> 00:08:27.249 WH11NE- Sunrise: So so I think that what I I would like to try to to tell you it's this type of difference, then, who builds work at the moment? Maybe it's not really my personal focus. 34 00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:29.669 WH11NE- Sunrise: I was not. I'm not the boss 35 00:08:30.140 --> 00:08:43.770 WH11NE- Sunrise: very far. So we published the the Feasibility study report that was asked in the past. In the past strategy. They, they told us to do the feasibility study. 36 00:08:43.770 --> 00:09:08.609 WH11NE- Sunrise: So there are 3 volumes. If you have the links, if you want to check, the 1st one is the one that deals with physics, experiment and detectors where I work, and then, of course, we have the accelerator and the technical infrastructure. And then you have all the civil engineering implementation and the sustainability that nowadays there is a huge effort, of course, to make these new machines not only as cheap as possible, but also 37 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:10.120 WH11NE- Sunrise: scalable, ecological. 38 00:09:11.270 --> 00:09:39.499 WH11NE- Sunrise: So just reminding you of the energy range and luminosity. Again, the the fun thing of this type of machine of a circular machine is that it goes is very happy to go to lower energies, and then, while we add our our cavities, we can. We can span, you know we can. We can tune it from the Z. To the Ww. Threshold to the Higgs factory mode is called 39 00:09:39.939 --> 00:10:02.900 WH11NE- Sunrise: so the Z. Production at 240 Gb. And then up to slightly above the should be 165 gb, so this would be the the energies that I consider in the baseline you can compare, for instance, with the within. This was like an older ilc prediction from like 2 50 to 3 80 40 00:10:03.810 --> 00:10:13.339 WH11NE- Sunrise: you can see here a possibility, the the luminosity integrated in time and a possible and plan 41 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:35.959 WH11NE- Sunrise: with a shorter, and in the beginning to calibrate everything we understand about going as soon as possible to the Higgs, because the Higgs factory is really the main motivation for this type of machine and then going back to the Zen for the electric program and then continuing. But this is not necessarily the end of story, because, given that the machine is flexible. 42 00:10:36.060 --> 00:11:01.930 WH11NE- Sunrise: there are other points that are extremely interesting. So there is the point of we can do. For instance, the Higgs mass on threshold here, or we could do the electronic power here, which is something unique. Of all these type of machines that are proposed. This is the only one. It's not an easy analysis. I will not talk about it today, but it's extremely interesting if you, if you are curious. 43 00:11:01.970 --> 00:11:15.940 WH11NE- Sunrise: So usually we show this slide. There was a very nice feature that shows the whole program very condensely. So clearly. We have the Higgs, as I said in all the Higgs. 44 00:11:15.950 --> 00:11:32.311 WH11NE- Sunrise: I'll show you something quick that are complementary to what can be done by luminosity. And then the top end is so called intensity frontier. So top Electric and Qcd to complete these standard model precision 45 00:11:33.270 --> 00:12:02.599 WH11NE- Sunrise: precision program. But then, at the Z, of course, we have a lot of production of heavy flavor bottoms, charts very competitively with other machines. And then the thing that then I will focus more today when we are at the Z with all these statistics. So we can do direct searches of lightning physics that are not possible at other machines, either beams or other things. I will show you. 46 00:12:02.790 --> 00:12:17.494 WH11NE- Sunrise: So the physics program is very, very large. And that's why I want to focus on one thing only we do have a few detector concept. They're really at the stage of concept, 47 00:12:18.050 --> 00:12:43.030 WH11NE- Sunrise: because the, the, the simulation for them are coming. Only now, the technology there is a lot of R&D to do. Basically, we needed something to be able to do our analysis with them. So so I think that the concept is that the R&D for this detector is actually very open, and we have a large. And now we started to have more and more synergy also with detectors from your colliders, or for future. Hh. 48 00:12:43.030 --> 00:12:59.329 WH11NE- Sunrise: because people are realizing that this machine is very special. I always like to say sometimes there is a prejudice that this is like lab. But this is nothing like lap lab in this machine is 15 min, and then you have 15 years to do something else. 49 00:12:59.330 --> 00:13:05.860 WH11NE- Sunrise: So it's a machine that has enormous challenges also from the detector point of view. So even if it's easy to do things 50 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:27.859 WH11NE- Sunrise: more or less okay, to do things as well as we need to do them. And the reason why we built the machine. And then we need a really challenging R&D, that now, in fact, is becoming. People are starting to understand that there are all these synergies. So we needed an example baseline detector to do our analysis. And so we wrote in the office 51 00:13:27.900 --> 00:13:56.609 WH11NE- Sunrise: the parameter simulation for what is called the idea detector, by the way, is the one also where Italy is more involved, and and has the the characteristic, the new characteristic compared to the detector that we have now that it does have a vertex detector. But then the main tracker is a very lightweight chamber, very, very large. It's more like the one of the Mega, 2 experiment and and so this really changes 52 00:13:56.610 --> 00:14:21.379 WH11NE- Sunrise: completely the capabilities of this of this detector for particle id, for instance, and also for resolution of momentum for momentum tracks, then the other special things, and then, after the chamber we have a silicon rap that could become, for instance, a time of flight, and after that a dual readout crystal calorimeter, which is so here, you know, because there is the the 53 00:14:21.780 --> 00:14:33.979 WH11NE- Sunrise: television people that study this type of of detector. So it gives like a 3% precision on the on the energy resolution which makes a big difference 54 00:14:34.130 --> 00:14:59.019 WH11NE- Sunrise: in many analysis, but in particular you will see both in searches and in flavor. And then now we have a new concept for a magnet which is very thin and of a new conception before the adronic calorimeter. Well, adronic is a calorimeter as well, but it's a fiber, and and it will be probably with iron. 55 00:14:59.020 --> 00:15:23.989 WH11NE- Sunrise: And then the neuron chambers afterwards. So this response from full simulation or from understanding of performance, was written in the alphas! But then this dial phase, if any of you uses it, you will see that the newer version have a specific modification. In particular, we have a modifying tracking. We can do the covalence matrix. We can do longer distance. 56 00:15:23.990 --> 00:15:33.129 WH11NE- Sunrise: displace vertices, we can do particle id, etc. So we added the capabilities. It's not just simple parameterization 57 00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:44.279 WH11NE- Sunrise: approximately. How big is the solenoid in the case where it's in front of a calorimeter. Do you recall? I I think it sounds like it's really thin. 58 00:15:44.410 --> 00:15:50.730 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's a new one, and it's being developed at Laza in Milan. Now do you recall what the field is? 59 00:15:50.870 --> 00:16:02.900 WH11NE- Sunrise: Yeah, it's 2, Tesla. It's 2 Tesla or 3 Tesla. Now we are trying to see if we can go to 3, Tesla, because the 2 that the choice of the of the magnetic field is not to explode the maintenance of the deals. 60 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:09.749 WH11NE- Sunrise: So at the moment the analysis are done with 2 Tesla. Some systematics sometimes are done with time to change. 61 00:16:10.190 --> 00:16:27.603 WH11NE- Sunrise: I know I'm going much slower than I thought. But okay, so of course, we have the indirect exploration, which I will try to go quickly. I've got a question. Are any of them looking into adding in 62 00:16:28.561 --> 00:16:51.559 WH11NE- Sunrise: additional particle id I didn't. I didn't describe all the detector concept. I told you about this one because I did this as well. Right? Absolutely. Yes, there is the the allegro, the one with the noble liquid is looking into. It's called arc. 63 00:16:51.560 --> 00:17:05.600 WH11NE- Sunrise: I think something like that. So there is. Yes, it is this, another particular id. This particular idea is is really fundamental. But the the idea that I wanted to pass is that I think in- in the past years 64 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:34.920 WH11NE- Sunrise: we kind of said many times, oh, there are 3 concept. There are 3 concept we have for interaction. Truly, none of this concept has been fully studied completely in an integrated way, with all the details, you know, if you talk to the collider colleagues, and we put with all the tubes and services and cables and everything to to make sure that everything fits together. We're really studying. Now, for instance, the Ndi, the the machine detector interface. We have a 65 00:17:35.450 --> 00:17:43.819 WH11NE- Sunrise: how do you say? To really try to see what you can do how the management. So so between 66 00:17:44.040 --> 00:17:53.110 WH11NE- Sunrise: what you put in, there is still a lot of space. And I think particle id is very important to add in. And and there is a lot of effort for particle id and for timing. 67 00:17:53.510 --> 00:17:58.789 WH11NE- Sunrise: I can tell you that, and also to improve the neurodetectors, for instance, also with timing, etcetera. 68 00:17:58.820 --> 00:18:27.590 WH11NE- Sunrise: So there is a there is really a lot. And my my hope also with this Bsn that I'm going to show you is that someone someday will come up with a detector for Bsm for this specific Bsn that we have. So we can discover many things that the standard model doesn't fit flavor, violation and flavor, conservation, violation, dark matter, or physical particles. In in this 100 Gv. Mass recognition 69 00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:51.730 WH11NE- Sunrise: so very quickly. One of the indirect things is the hiccup and precision. I just wanted to have this page because these are the latest number that was submitted to the strategy. So maybe some of you have not seen them. They've not really changed much from the Cdr. I have to say. But the the important point is that we redid all the analysis that are here 70 00:18:51.730 --> 00:19:01.469 WH11NE- Sunrise: with the new software frameworks and your simulation. And compared to the scaling from Ilc, everything comes reasonably consistent. 71 00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:21.580 WH11NE- Sunrise: So this is actually, very, very important thing to know if you are at any plus and minus, you get the model, and you have the same luminosity. You get the same result, which is very good actually to have. And so so the difference, of course, is the luminosity. So some of these numbers at the Fcc. You get faster than in other places. 72 00:19:21.740 --> 00:19:46.030 WH11NE- Sunrise: Now we can do the Higgs self coupling in an indirect way through the single production and the loop effects. You know, however, that now the aluminosity in the new strategy iteration, they have a new value which is less than 30%, 73 00:19:46.030 --> 00:19:59.320 WH11NE- Sunrise: so that makes it comparable to what was more or less achievable indirectly, also the. So if you can compare, you will go to about 20% on the self coupling. 74 00:19:59.390 --> 00:20:12.400 WH11NE- Sunrise: Okay, the. And this is up to 3, 65. Okay, no, no double leaks in the Fcc. But then, if you want to go below the percent, there's no story you need other or immune collider. 75 00:20:13.340 --> 00:20:42.879 WH11NE- Sunrise: There was quickly. One important thing is the interplay of the electronic and the Higgs measurement. And this is to show you how the Z Polar run is very important on many, many aspects, and so it is already important for the Higgs itself. If you have only the Higgs measurements, then you have correlations between the you can see in this there is the nice, these nice drawings where you have connection between the operators. 76 00:20:43.020 --> 00:20:58.040 WH11NE- Sunrise: So these are the 6 dimension eft operators between the and the and the and the electronic operators. And once you include the new connections separate. 77 00:20:58.040 --> 00:21:23.039 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so you have a better precision, better sensitivity. So this can be seen also in this other way. So this is the legend that you understand. And I think it's it's maybe it's small. I can make it maybe bigger. So you can see that if you if you have a Z program for some variables, you really reduce the uncertainty by a lot. This can also, if you have the patient to go through this through this plot can also be a 78 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:30.709 WH11NE- Sunrise: achieved with some polarization run at the linear collider, for instance. But basically it is important to have the. 79 00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:55.059 WH11NE- Sunrise: It is important to get this additional. It's another way to see how the information of the Elector week reduces the uncertainty on the couplings. Here is written as coupling before it was written as eft parameters, so putting everything together from the electro week precision measurement 80 00:21:55.060 --> 00:22:19.790 WH11NE- Sunrise: that you can see here. There are really the statistical precision becomes very, very small. So it's all a game that we need to start in the next years of understanding how to control the systematics. Then, if you put in again in an eft of Dimension 6, you can have indirect sensitivity to many, many tens of Tvs, or even 70 TV, if you want. 81 00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:40.960 WH11NE- Sunrise: just from this precision measurement. So the the point is that of course, this is indirect, but it can derive you. You know the next thing that you want to do, you know at which energy you may want to go. If you see something in the in that range, because then this range becomes accessible from the next PCM machine. 82 00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:45.949 WH11NE- Sunrise: So how does how does the the Smith 83 00:22:46.370 --> 00:22:49.869 WH11NE- Sunrise: uncertainty compared to the full Hlhc data set. For instance. 84 00:22:50.640 --> 00:23:01.379 WH11NE- Sunrise: I think I have the I have the plot somewhere, but it's it's much reduced. It's maybe you can see here there is somehow looming. 85 00:23:02.542 --> 00:23:11.909 WH11NE- Sunrise: Oh, the gray there. Okay, yeah. The gray here. I I do have the flood also with the Iloomi summer. But yes, it's it's much reduced. It's just no comparison. 86 00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:25.750 WH11NE- Sunrise: some because some things you cannot cannot do. Well, it's it's always smaller. So, for instance, for tough physics. I just wanted to add one slide, because here also there are 87 00:23:25.750 --> 00:23:34.679 WH11NE- Sunrise: the precision topmass that goes into those feet of before. But then there is also the direct search for favor changing neutral current, for instance. 88 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:57.469 WH11NE- Sunrise: or which, again, the compatibility with Ilumi is questionable. However, what I like to say is that since the sensitivity is similar, if the Ilumi would see something in the in the flavor changing the current of the top, then the Cce, you would have the capability to actually measure things because it's much cleaner at the moment it has less statistics. 89 00:23:57.470 --> 00:24:09.989 WH11NE- Sunrise: because it's just a couple of 1 million tops. But then, if you have a signal, maybe you might change again. The beauty of these machines is that you can tune right? So now we know that the top is more interesting at threshold. 90 00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:34.269 WH11NE- Sunrise: So we'll see, and with the precision of the of the, for instance, the electroweak couplings, you can also. This is a plot where you can see compared to the Lhc. This would be the little over of the Fcc in electronic couplings of the top. Okay? And and here are all points of possible models that could be, you know, tested or excluded. 91 00:24:34.270 --> 00:24:42.000 WH11NE- Sunrise: You pick, and there is a sensitivity, and up to a 40 easy prime mass, for instance. So it's not a negligible. 92 00:24:42.540 --> 00:25:07.270 WH11NE- Sunrise: Then, when we go to flavor of Tau physics again, there is, of course, all the precision measurement that you can make, because this you can see the number of of Z and and Tau's compared to. For instance, Bell 2. At this moment also Cpc. Even if the statistics again between Cpc. And Fcc. I would not take it as the competition. 93 00:25:07.330 --> 00:25:30.410 WH11NE- Sunrise: We don't care, because it's just a question of deciding so so you can see that compared to Bell, there is a huge number of of more data. But it's not just. The data is is also that this final states are boosted because they are the case of the Z, and they are very clean. 94 00:25:30.410 --> 00:25:54.159 WH11NE- Sunrise: There is nothing compared, for instance, to Lhcb or Lhc. And then again, with an excellent vertex. In tracking and particle id the flavor. Physics that can be done really allow to access, array, decay, and test of lectin, flavor, violation, or Unitarity. There are unification that are very important. I just put here a couple 95 00:25:54.280 --> 00:26:18.469 WH11NE- Sunrise: because to me they fit into the searches. So there is a tau 2 mu gamma, and we can see here. I hope I don't know if I'm in front of it. You can see here the the scaling that you can get going from belt 2. And this is the final, the predicted by 2. But Cce, it's again, and then here also for taut premium. 96 00:26:18.882 --> 00:26:39.110 WH11NE- Sunrise: What would be done. It's another 9 here to 11. So it's another couple of other. All this I like to put all the links. If something is missing, ask me, because we have so many new papers, so that is hard to follow them all. This is another way of seeing everything that I find it interesting. 97 00:26:39.110 --> 00:26:53.280 WH11NE- Sunrise: because there is again, the luminosity which I think is is important, and this is new when you have the dash. Dotted line is the high luminosity, and it's see. So you see how it improves in this direction. And these are 2 operators 98 00:26:53.280 --> 00:27:19.090 WH11NE- Sunrise: for the laptop level violation, always dimension 6. And now now it's it's really customary to do everything with the ft. And operators. And and here you can see the total premium, for instance, simple movement of between the limit. And now and the Fcc. Or you have. Now, this is total new grammar. After I don't even think we put the Fcc. You just put it renew. But this was the I know this is the Fcc, and this is the 99 00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:29.200 WH11NE- Sunrise: currently meter. So you see how much it squeezes this type of thing. So this is direct. Again, observation of federal violation. 100 00:27:29.290 --> 00:27:42.529 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so now we go to. Finally, there are searches. Because there is a lot. There is many models with weekly or feebly interacting new particles 101 00:27:42.530 --> 00:27:59.380 WH11NE- Sunrise: that can be explored and are very difficult to do at the Lhc. I don't want to say that it's impossible, because there are many analysis that are happening, and I'm sure that the Iumi we are employing also in the trigger. And all this new machine learning approach. For for stranger final states. 102 00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:02.039 WH11NE- Sunrise: so certainly things will improve. 103 00:28:02.320 --> 00:28:09.170 WH11NE- Sunrise: But but still, at the moment, the situation is that there is a large of a space that is very open. 104 00:28:09.550 --> 00:28:38.569 WH11NE- Sunrise: And the the thing that that made this very interesting, even if it's hard still to extract specific numbers is in what we call detector environments. As I said, if you want to design a detector, so 1st of all, you need domesticity because there is a lot of invisible final state. And already the automaticity is tricky because of the Ndi. So it seems okay, plus and minus. It is maybe not not really or at what level. 105 00:28:38.880 --> 00:29:00.939 WH11NE- Sunrise: Clearly. The sensitivity to displaced vertices, you will see, is very, very important. Okay? And where displaced means in the track, in the calorimeter, in the neon detector, in the cabin outside the cabin. So parasitic detectors, for instance, have already been planned as well to be, or maybe to put the detectors around the walls of the cabin for these things. 106 00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:29.130 WH11NE- Sunrise: timing, because timing can be very important. And then, of course, a doctor reconstruction, because the summer reconstruction that we used to have doesn't work anymore. But again, being this new new experiments, for example, I can tell you that for the tracking we're already exploiting a Gnn approach where you throw all the heats, all the detectors to your gnn, and it's working beautifully. So I'm very happy about it. This will help with all this type of things. 107 00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:36.330 WH11NE- Sunrise: So in the intensity for tier, we can access. As I said, it is one to a hundred Gb, mass range. 108 00:29:36.810 --> 00:29:50.220 WH11NE- Sunrise: Typically, this particle can be stable or composite. They could be that matter candidates, they could be mediators. And, of course, as you know, the spin of the mediator define the portal. 109 00:29:50.610 --> 00:30:08.109 WH11NE- Sunrise: We have analysis in all of these, but they are not all complete. So I will just focus on on the few that are complete and that we have published. Okay, but there is a dark photon and the dark showers. There are neutrino Alps and dark hips, for instance. 110 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:33.909 WH11NE- Sunrise: And maybe if you get more ideas. After today I would be happy. So this, for instance, we start from the Higgs, and this is a model of inert 2 Higgs doublet model. So this is an extra scala. You see here the A and the H is these 2 guys. And this H is actually invisible, inert. And this was an analysis, in fact, done. 111 00:30:33.910 --> 00:30:52.029 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's a nice collaboration with the with colleagues, because energies of of the Scc. And and so it updates and extends the previous studies at Click. And then you can see here 112 00:30:52.030 --> 00:31:07.450 WH11NE- Sunrise: the this is the I just put because I'm optimistic, the discovery. I've seen mine, the paper there is also the 25% exclusion. But I like to show the discovery when I have it. And so this is, for instance, this is still from lab. 113 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:31.809 WH11NE- Sunrise: and I'm not sure that here we have a room to really compare to this specific final state, because in the end this final state has a left turn and nothing else. So so again, all these final states that I'm going to show you that they are really competitive with what we can do at the Lhc. We do, maybe the same model, but with different final states. 114 00:31:34.210 --> 00:32:03.499 WH11NE- Sunrise: and so another. Another darker scholar model is this one where we have a Higgs. That goes to this to this extra scalar dedicated to these with a with a large bunch of fraction. And and they are also displaced. Okay, so these are 4 jets. In your event, this is a very nice event. There's 4 b jets, and they come from 2 displaced vertices. 115 00:32:03.882 --> 00:32:28.340 WH11NE- Sunrise: So so this also happens. Sorry, I forgot to say this also happens at the Higgs factory mode. So zh where we have about 10 autobahn, which correspond roughly to 2 million inks, more or less, just to give you an order of magnitude. So this is a small number of inks compared to the Nhc. Of course. But but then again. 116 00:32:30.366 --> 00:32:34.419 WH11NE- Sunrise: production. But 117 00:32:34.470 --> 00:32:52.070 WH11NE- Sunrise: here already, we can see that we can use this, this place, the capabilities of of the target in this such a clean environment helps a lot in the background. So here, that's the standard model of things right in the initial. 118 00:32:52.570 --> 00:33:14.300 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's like a portal that goes to the 2 news colors. So what is what energy do the collisions need to be at 242, 43, 65. It was done at the Isc, because then it would have. So it's the normal. Zh, it's a normal. No. So I'm starting from the Higgs. 119 00:33:14.678 --> 00:33:44.210 WH11NE- Sunrise: Just to say that, of course, at every energy we can do, Bsn, just to remind him. But then, you know, this is maybe the one that we like the most, and this I like the most. It's the heavy neutral electrons, so heavy neutrinos, heavy neutrinos can explain many things as well. Neutrino masses. They can be candidates for dark matter. They can also help in biogenesis, biomassymmetry, electrogenesis, etcetera. So experimentally, why do we care? Because 120 00:33:44.580 --> 00:34:09.529 WH11NE- Sunrise: they are a heavy fermion with this suppressed interaction? That means. The final state is very clean, very empty again, cannot really be done easily. If you want to, you should compare to the, to all the searches. Then, you see, like you have the you need the Isr to tag something else on the other side, because it's soft. Okay, if you want to compare 121 00:34:09.530 --> 00:34:14.979 WH11NE- Sunrise: physics that you might know, and and again with a small mixing. 122 00:34:14.989 --> 00:34:27.169 WH11NE- Sunrise: Then they care how long they came back. So this is just an image of this is an artistic image of a display, for instance. But then we go through that. So so here we have a fairly complete set of analysis. 123 00:34:27.770 --> 00:34:43.149 WH11NE- Sunrise: We focus on the final in the final states with the electronic and semi electronic. So let's go through them and see a little bit of the problems that we have in all. So in this case, we're focusing now, the okay, so it's 6 10 to the 124 00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:58.210 WH11NE- Sunrise: and and then if you go to the electronic finance state, as usual, is a small branch in the ratio, but you have nothing in the event, even in this case, for instance, is, I have, I have stuff here. Sorry I have stuff on my 125 00:35:00.100 --> 00:35:24.119 WH11NE- Sunrise: so so here you have only 2 mu attacks, for instance, in the final state, and and here you can exploit the long decay length. You can see here, for instance, the the distance of your of your vertex, and here you can compare with the with the background. See, this is the background for Z. Mu! And then you can cut on that, and then you can have. You can obtain the limit and 126 00:35:24.450 --> 00:35:52.069 WH11NE- Sunrise: And then you can see here, for instance, these are the 2. The 2 dash lines represent, for instance, a 5% difference in efficient just to have an idea of systematics. This is again, this is a 1 of those analysis. Some of them, I will tell you. Some of them are just counting the number of events like at least 3 or at least 4 events seen a 0 background. Or there is a feature in the background. Okay, so this is like the one without the background. 127 00:35:53.550 --> 00:36:15.106 WH11NE- Sunrise: Can I go? Okay, when we move to the new jet jet? Because here you see, the decay always put it here. So there is, for instance, W, and then you go. Actually a w. 1 goes to jet. So then here you need also you have a much larger branch infraction. Again, in this case we assume only one flavor 128 00:36:15.460 --> 00:36:44.969 WH11NE- Sunrise: We can reconstruct the final state, so we can also reconstruct eventually the Chanel. But here is 3 key. You can see from this from this drawing, and there is an interesting aspect, and I have no time in detail of the analysis that, depending on the energy and the mass, of course, that you can have 2 jets. So you can have only one jet, because the 2 products are close to each other. And so here we have again 2 different type of analysis, one for low mass and one for a mass. 129 00:36:45.240 --> 00:37:05.150 WH11NE- Sunrise: When the jets are quite separated. We do the the prompt analysis, and and when they have only one, Jack, and it's a little bit more complicated. We use the the displays the the displays. That signature you can see here, for instance, plots of the visible mass, with everything else in the background 130 00:37:05.150 --> 00:37:29.759 WH11NE- Sunrise: and the at the end. Again, we have a land for the prompt analysis. There is a background, so there is a fit of significance of under the ground. And so this is the 95% confidence level. And when we go instead for the long lead, there is a 0 background approach where you only ask for 3 events above 3 events. Observe, okay, at least 3 events. Observe. 131 00:37:29.830 --> 00:37:32.730 WH11NE- Sunrise: given the cross section in that specific point. 132 00:37:33.070 --> 00:37:54.230 WH11NE- Sunrise: And here you see the values, how they? How the curve moves with your sensitivity to the long distance. So I didn't talk about the detectors a lot. But we can see, for instance, with the silicon tracker is much trickier to have all these possibilities of of longer decay length at least the one that we tried now. 133 00:37:54.310 --> 00:38:22.480 WH11NE- Sunrise: plus. There's no time to go in detail, but then, once you observe something, then you can also study the property. This will be the the beauty of this of this machine, because there is enough statistics and enough precision that, for instance, that depending. If you see one H and L signature, you can try to figure out which model it is. Where does it come? There is. This is one model, for instance, with oscillation, and and we would be looking at those 134 00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:27.793 WH11NE- Sunrise: we go ahead. Compare with 135 00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:34.009 WH11NE- Sunrise: I I'll have the plot at the end. I have the spoiler at the end, and maybe even here 136 00:38:34.030 --> 00:38:59.390 WH11NE- Sunrise: you can start seeing something. I put it at the end. So so there's 2 more, 2 more things. So that of course we did the new one. Then you can do the electron again, then you focus on only one family, and and then again you play with the with the long lived and the secondary selection. So in this particular case you end up here 137 00:38:59.390 --> 00:39:25.240 WH11NE- Sunrise: in this middle of this. This will be the plot that you see at the end of the neutrino mass versus the coupling, and you see how low it goes. And this is almost not even as complete as the other analysis. But the statistics is extremely large, and and you could see here. I don't know how much visible it is, how much you gain from a certain count analysis moving to a machine learning approach 138 00:39:26.128 --> 00:39:40.780 WH11NE- Sunrise: so this is the summary that you are asking. So there are more analysis in promise. My time is what it is. So so at the moment. This is the Rhc. With the long lived. And then let's see, with the prompt. 139 00:39:40.780 --> 00:40:05.500 WH11NE- Sunrise: I can tell you that there is something with dark showers, with neon detectors. That is kind of around here. I don't know how it plays with these models, though. But this would be the the ones the summary of the ones for the muon only, not the electrons that I showed you. So this would be the long lived neuron leptonic. This is the prompt neuron. 140 00:40:05.500 --> 00:40:19.060 WH11NE- Sunrise: semi electronic. This would be the long leave the semi electronic. So you see that you are the branching ratio. You have events, and you see the difference if we could see everything. This is like the perfect, you know the theoretical expectation. 141 00:40:19.060 --> 00:40:43.310 WH11NE- Sunrise: So we're not doing that bad at the moment. So this Lhc is that the current? Lhc, I know I tried to have them. I really tried, because I do have neutrinos and Lhc. But it was very difficult already to have a single plot just for the review that we published. It was very hard and trying to do the extrapolation. It's 142 00:40:43.350 --> 00:40:55.679 WH11NE- Sunrise: also because things are changing too much, and so we don't even know which how the analysis and the previous and everything. So I wish. But I at the moment is something like it was something like here in the past. 143 00:40:55.740 --> 00:41:23.209 WH11NE- Sunrise: So that's kind of 7, 8. But it was not going to 10 or 11. I have the old plot. That is not, you know, official anymore. You can see it around. You can see the old plot, but it was made by by a colleague. But then, you know it was, we could not trust it too much, and not because it was optimistic or not. It's just. 144 00:41:24.150 --> 00:41:31.060 WH11NE- Sunrise: but it was much higher. It was just here. Okay, is there a reason of the analysis? Stop at 10, Jamie, can you go lower? 145 00:41:31.510 --> 00:41:53.710 WH11NE- Sunrise: Well, that this is also the analysis at the moment. This is the generation, and then it's like the you know, the cat, the kinematical cards that we have maybe to roll over. We need to think of something else, because these are already very low energy. When you go to the left, on the cut on the left, on this is 2 Gb, right? 146 00:41:53.710 --> 00:42:03.879 WH11NE- Sunrise: And it's very low. Also, it's low also for Fcc, because you think you need the 2 G just to get to the, to the to the 147 00:42:04.240 --> 00:42:04.960 WH11NE- Sunrise: okay. 148 00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:14.680 WH11NE- Sunrise: So even with the current, like, why is so much better? Is it just you're comparing autoborns? 149 00:42:15.240 --> 00:42:41.950 WH11NE- Sunrise: Well, because it's a i mean, the statistics is large for this but the the I believe. Now I don't know exactly that specific analysis, but the the sensitivity to the to the lower couplets and going to lower. You know the trigger. Basically, you go to much lower momentum for the Leptons and for the jets, and the Lc. Is just hard 150 00:42:42.950 --> 00:43:05.829 WH11NE- Sunrise: in general. I I haven't checked them. But I I would say pretty confidently, that is something like that, because again, here we don't have a trigger. We take everything. There's no trigger so so you have a 2 Gb. New one and and jets of 10. Gb, if you try to do the same idea, you. I mean, you need to go to parking, maybe, but that is not done. 151 00:43:06.583 --> 00:43:16.799 WH11NE- Sunrise: So it's it's it's also good ideas for the Lic. One thing we noticed. In fact, this is also another reason why I like to talk about this is that we get ideas for the Lic 152 00:43:17.349 --> 00:43:31.170 WH11NE- Sunrise: that we should do because- because this is coming for real. So we should know. I mean, it's a very good question. I think we should go look, but the the big thing is happening with statistics. So this is something else. 153 00:43:31.290 --> 00:43:43.489 WH11NE- Sunrise: just to give you a flavor of instead of looking at another model that is a 2 generation scenario. And and so this is interesting because it kind of moves away from having only one. It's a little bit, maybe more realistic. 154 00:43:43.490 --> 00:44:07.559 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so again, just the analysis is very similar in prompt and long lead. The only thing is that in the decay you would have 2 letters of different flavor, so you can add 2 electrons, 2 mules, or an electron and a new one. So then you have the Tau, the Tau background to deal with. But then, again, you know this is a fit done on the angular distribution, because in the prompt you and the grounds. 155 00:44:07.640 --> 00:44:21.720 WH11NE- Sunrise: either only 0 backgrounds and-. And therefore this can also be done by this done by as well same as people. This could be done at the lic. If we find the 156 00:44:21.720 --> 00:44:46.169 WH11NE- Sunrise: hours in the day to do it, moving quickly to the other big guy. It's the Alps. The action, like particles, are very popular right now. They're very nice, and they can be produced in association with the photon, with the Z or with the pigs. There's many, many final states, some initial analysis have been done again, mostly directed to detector characteristics. 157 00:44:46.170 --> 00:45:04.100 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so this is the most, the main signature that we studied where there is a photon, and then another goes to 2 photons. So you can have 3 photons, 2 photons, one photons, etc. And and then, of course, they can have a very different range in mass. 158 00:45:04.100 --> 00:45:28.570 WH11NE- Sunrise: but also in displacement. So, for instance, if you want to, just to learn a little bit, you can have. The prompt, of course, has irreducible background from the Gamma Gamma production, then if you go displaced in the tracking volume you are relatively, you can see here all the curves of the coupling versus the mass. 159 00:45:28.930 --> 00:45:36.680 WH11NE- Sunrise: So this would be the prompt like 100 events. This would be long lived for events, and then, if you go 160 00:45:36.730 --> 00:45:57.670 WH11NE- Sunrise: in the calorimeter, when you have a single photo in the calorimeter, then it will depend on the E color. I will show you. So this would be this monogamma. Oh, and then there is this color here. Oh, sorry is this is this color here, and then you can decay outside the detector volume. So you have only the extra gamma, not the Alps 161 00:45:57.670 --> 00:46:11.260 WH11NE- Sunrise: that that goes that goes among Gamma signature. So, depending on the signature, you can win or not with your detector. So one thing that we see here is that in the 4th case, depending 162 00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:36.144 WH11NE- Sunrise: on the angular separation of the photon, you can compare how it performs having a nickel, crystal or not, and this is what you can see here as a function of the mass, and this is the coupling with the when you have the 2 photons. If you have the crystal fiber calorimeter. It helps when you have, when you have, I mean, 163 00:46:36.750 --> 00:46:40.310 WH11NE- Sunrise: Sorry. This is the the difference to us. 164 00:46:41.630 --> 00:47:04.240 WH11NE- Sunrise: Yes, no, exactly so. So in this case, if the granularity, instead of for 2 photos, they can get closer you gain when they're very close. Because of the granularity of the calorie method behind of the fiber calorie method. But when you have a monophotome where your your goal is actually a very nice energy resolution, then in crystal makes you win. 165 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:21.000 WH11NE- Sunrise: which is here. You see, this is lower compared to the other. So so this helps, you know. And this is this was very nice to understand, for the crystallic you can have also in this is another study, the photon fusion. So in this case it's light by light scattering all the Dlhc. 166 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:36.450 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so you can have an extra, an extra limit on that, and you can have a summary here. So this is the summary plot to look at. So at the Z poll we would have. This is the gamma plus invisible. This would be the 3 gamma. 167 00:47:36.520 --> 00:47:38.630 WH11NE- Sunrise: and this would be the light by light 168 00:47:38.720 --> 00:48:01.729 WH11NE- Sunrise: here and then here you see the the. It will be Scc. Hh. With lead up here. You see Lhc with lead now, but it's not. This is Lhc now, and this is Lhcp, so so there is again this this part here that is not cover now or or in the future, maybe by by any of those. 169 00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:29.399 WH11NE- Sunrise: So to conclude, just one slide on the fcch, which I will not discuss because it's kind of obvious you go to higher energy about 6 times. Then you see mass reach. And so when you go to higher center of mass energy, you can produce whatever you want. So just to say, you know that all these indirect TV scale that we saw before they could be probed with this type of machine 170 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:36.210 WH11NE- Sunrise: that can have also heavy ion. Or it could be, you know, another machine with with high energy in the center of mass. 171 00:48:36.620 --> 00:48:43.270 WH11NE- Sunrise: So to conclude, I think that the Fcc is clearly an amazing factory that we need. 172 00:48:43.270 --> 00:49:08.180 WH11NE- Sunrise: But I didn't talk about it because everybody talks about that. But it does. It does allow access to rare Mbsm processes at all energies, and not just this Bsn, that you just said that. So H. And l, but but also all the flavor program, top flavor changing, etc. Etc. Not that you need the 173 00:49:08.180 --> 00:49:09.940 WH11NE- Sunrise: let's see about that. 174 00:49:10.470 --> 00:49:23.619 WH11NE- Sunrise: But and and extensive sensitivity to all these feebly interacting particles, because it's very hard to do them. And they have to collide, and we feel that is the best way to prepare for the high energy exploration. 175 00:49:23.870 --> 00:49:33.500 WH11NE- Sunrise: The other interesting thing of this is that collaboration with the deal is crucial because any new idea suggestion is very welcome. 176 00:49:33.500 --> 00:49:57.900 WH11NE- Sunrise: and this leaves at the border also with the detector. So all these, all these things being a relevant detector requirements, we still do not have the best detector for all this. We are trying idea works fairly well, but it can be improved. And and so we now are trying to use also this to be the case for the European strategy, and you can check all our documents. Thank you 177 00:50:06.217 --> 00:50:17.622 WH11NE- Sunrise: 4 interaction regions? Are there really gonna be 4? 178 00:50:19.330 --> 00:50:35.499 WH11NE- Sunrise: So there are. There are 4 cabins at the moment planned to bigger, 2 smaller to the size, because- because they need to be thought for the Sch, where I think we think of 2 for now. But it's yeah. It's 179 00:50:35.500 --> 00:50:56.729 WH11NE- Sunrise: killing out the bionic. It would be good to have 4 detectors, because the idea would be to do Lhc sites, 2 more general purpose detectors and then 2 maybe focus one. For instance, we say, always say on flavor, and one focus on these Bsn things. So when you sacrifice something, you know, for something that when you compromise. 180 00:50:57.500 --> 00:51:27.309 WH11NE- Sunrise: but at the moment. At the moment, as you can see, the the ideas kind of collapse to the fact of this light, the brief chamber. So now we have different panel. We have the strong chamber coming up, for instance, as an option. Silicon is not very loved because it's kind of heavy, but we have to see, because silicon can give us the timing. So I I still like the idea of the 5 d. Reconstruction. 181 00:51:27.761 --> 00:51:36.200 WH11NE- Sunrise: But yeah, so so at the moment there is. There is clearly effort on the, on, the, on the light trackers 182 00:51:36.270 --> 00:51:42.289 WH11NE- Sunrise: actually is starting, because for for a long time it was just this this chamber. But 183 00:51:42.670 --> 00:52:09.869 WH11NE- Sunrise: honestly, we're still, you know, starting is very challenging the tech. It seems easy, but it's not easy. It's a 4 meter long thing, with very much tension at the end place. It's really not not easy to build and to make work. It would be great for the physics, but it's not easy. And and so now other ideas are coming up. I think there was. There is a 184 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:22.440 WH11NE- Sunrise: a lot of effort on calorimeters as well, because we have seen how much the calorimeters have a different approach here. I mean the the finest leads with jets in this. In this machine. 185 00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:44.239 WH11NE- Sunrise: A really pleasure. Okay, I always work with jets all my life, and and you can do incredible things. And so having really this very granular. So in one you know you have that like now, also the callous one that is being adopted, you know, from the concept. 186 00:52:44.690 --> 00:52:58.270 WH11NE- Sunrise: And they go without we start. We start thinking of, you know this high granularity. But again, maybe the timing and the possibility of reconstructing in there, because when you have this type of finance states. 187 00:52:58.380 --> 00:53:26.190 WH11NE- Sunrise: you would really like to keep to keep reconstructing all over your detect. And the same is for the neural chambers, for instance. Well considered a little, because okay, you dug a new one just to know it's a new one. And now you realize that if you have a standalone reconstruction in the new chamber themselves, then you you can have all these dark showers along. Leave the stuff 188 00:53:26.250 --> 00:53:43.089 WH11NE- Sunrise: so hopefully, hopefully from the and you know, more detector concepts come out. I mean also also Cpc. The last saw that they were not really for detector side. So 189 00:53:43.250 --> 00:53:47.999 WH11NE- Sunrise: so we'll see. I think I think, that if this goes people will get excited. 190 00:53:48.600 --> 00:53:52.110 WH11NE- Sunrise: but until there is a a positive. 191 00:53:53.840 --> 00:54:10.619 WH11NE- Sunrise: it's it's difficult. But there, but there is a lot of R&D, and and I hope it will, it will collapse. I mean, of course, for instance, now, from the vertex, there are some things that are better than that maps, you know, and the curve, the maps, the thing the curve maps are winning. Everybody wants to have those. 192 00:54:10.660 --> 00:54:22.499 WH11NE- Sunrise: There's a huge synergy with everyone, with Alice, with everyone. So so I don't know, as you say, for detectors is a good question in the set to me. 193 00:54:22.520 --> 00:54:45.809 WH11NE- Sunrise: not because of different detection, because it's important to have more so for biases and systematics and calibration, and all that. That. Let's show that you needed more than one. But it's a variety that kind of worries me a little bit more, because in this, in this focus on optimization, it kind of feels that you end up in 194 00:54:45.870 --> 00:55:10.590 WH11NE- Sunrise: in the same, in the same minimum. And my personal sorry this is off the record. But but I I think I mean that when you go for optimal, you go for optimal. You put everything you have in one thing, and then there is one thing it is not like 10 different ones. But so so you I think it's a very nice exercise. If I were a detective person. I 195 00:55:10.780 --> 00:55:21.600 WH11NE- Sunrise: I like that. I mean, I'm in between. So that's why I do what I do. Because in the technical requirements, I think, are extremely interesting to see where you want to lose or not. 196 00:55:21.980 --> 00:55:37.999 WH11NE- Sunrise: But I remind everyone that the 1st measurements were done. The 1st studies we did in 2014 shooting electors into Cms just to say and it was working. It was not so bad. 197 00:55:38.570 --> 00:55:50.170 WH11NE- Sunrise: So so the real difference is really to achieve this exceptional performance, and and that we're not there yet, even if it's in plastic minus that looks like 198 00:55:50.450 --> 00:55:57.070 WH11NE- Sunrise: not high energy. No, it's 10 to the 12 side difficult. 199 00:55:58.450 --> 00:55:59.130 WH11NE- Sunrise: So 200 00:55:59.890 --> 00:56:21.089 WH11NE- Sunrise: do we have. Yeah. So if the emphasis is beyond the standard model, which I like a lot shouldn't the provider run more at the 60 Gb. Energy instead of running so much at the Z. Wall, because there's much more room for discovery if you're at their energy. 201 00:56:21.300 --> 00:56:37.940 WH11NE- Sunrise: Okay? So the thing is this, I guess that this at some point we need to talk to to who has the money, basically because because the point is this plot here it is easy. We can get all this in 4 years. 202 00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:59.040 WH11NE- Sunrise: And to get this, it takes 4 years as well to get only a little, so there is much less luminosity at a circular collider when you go higher, I mean at this point, actually more or less same with the lunar collider vision as well. At that energy. To go higher, you need a new collider to really have the advantage of. 203 00:56:59.040 --> 00:57:23.410 WH11NE- Sunrise: I'm talking about all the particles you discussed. How about running it somewhere in between? I mean, you don't want too much background. So maybe H and L is entirely. We just didn't do the search. So H. And L is entirely 90 Gv. Running. And if you're interested in that physics, I think mostly what you care about. 204 00:57:24.080 --> 00:57:33.460 WH11NE- Sunrise: And then you want to run above, not down in the in the couplex. 205 00:57:33.460 --> 00:57:58.900 WH11NE- Sunrise: Yeah. Well, no. He would like to go down in the cabins with more statistics and higher energy. Right? Yeah. But so I, what I think is that the beauty of having such a machine is really the tune ability and the choice. So again, having the possibility of having larger luminosity even 206 00:57:58.900 --> 00:58:16.879 WH11NE- Sunrise: here, okay, maybe maybe the 360 starts being difficult. But who knows if in 10 years we know also how to have more efficiency there. I don't know, because you know, the accelerator physicists come up with upgrades every every week. But imagine that we are still in this region as well. 207 00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:36.730 WH11NE- Sunrise: and and then it doesn't take that long to double or triple, because we're talking a few years. If you compare. This is one thing that there is a paper about. If you compare with the luminosity and the amount of time that you need to collect the same statistics to get the same resolution with the linear collide and see vision for it. 208 00:58:36.730 --> 00:58:38.589 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's much longer. 209 00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:57.640 WH11NE- Sunrise: And so at some point, physicist. You cannot keep them, you know, attached to a machine for 30 years to do. H. And Li wouldn't do it either. So so the good thing here is that it's short, because because this is 2 years. And this is another 2 years. 210 00:58:57.720 --> 00:59:21.870 WH11NE- Sunrise: Then, okay, see, the top is already longer. The top is already 5 years to get there, but if there is a signal, you know you can choose. You're not forced, because it's just your cavity, and you choose and you go. I wish, I mean, if Lhc finds a signal to it would be fantastic, because then it would be complementary. If it's a signal that we can see here, of course. 211 00:59:22.080 --> 00:59:42.830 WH11NE- Sunrise: So so, yeah. And and again, I think that the Bsm, we focused a lot now on the Zen and there. And we did not focus on the rest. But I'm sure that maybe there are other ideas. But if you compare, like, even the top with the Ilumi is not so competitive as I said that the reach is similar to the. 212 00:59:43.460 --> 00:59:47.499 WH11NE- Sunrise: So you don't do better. You do. If I do misses something we can 213 00:59:47.870 --> 00:59:54.370 WH11NE- Sunrise: started. But it's not better because of the statistic. The alumni is a top factory, the Hicks factory. 214 00:59:54.570 --> 00:59:55.870 WH11NE- Sunrise: bye, you know. 215 00:59:56.670 --> 01:00:00.560 WH11NE- Sunrise: Yeah, the double hat. So you know, I can't lie. 216 01:00:03.300 --> 01:00:09.330 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's maybe a little bit off topic. But with the current plan, how precise would we know? The telecom 217 01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:20.669 WH11NE- Sunrise: at the top mark is, the statistics is less than 20. And then we clearly remaining remaining around, you know. 218 01:00:24.820 --> 01:00:25.610 WH11NE- Sunrise: Yeah. 219 01:00:26.470 --> 01:00:47.059 WH11NE- Sunrise: So something quick. 1st of all, thank you very much. It was very interesting to listen to the Dsm angle of this. We hear a lot about the precision, which is great, but I think Bsm. Was very interesting. One question I had was you have you still have precision. So some of the same physics potentially can be constrained or seen through 220 01:00:47.478 --> 01:01:07.169 WH11NE- Sunrise: deviations in the precision measurements within the Higgs or electro weak measure, but you also have some direct constraints. And so do you know, if there's any ongoing attempt to understand within these physics. Models do things show up 1st in the, in the precision land or in the direct Bsm, meaning. 221 01:01:07.180 --> 01:01:18.270 WH11NE- Sunrise: yeah, maybe knows more than me. But I think that with this, for instance, H. And M. Models. 222 01:01:18.380 --> 01:01:47.520 WH11NE- Sunrise: Not sure that is really the same operator. I I don't know if someone that knows most. I I haven't looked at that at a channel with ft. Because there is, in fact, other efforts now to take eft to direct to concrete mode is starting to do that. So instead of doing Eft interpretation, you do the opposite. You take a concrete model, and and you do 223 01:01:47.520 --> 01:02:05.690 WH11NE- Sunrise: so. I think that for this H. And L, and also the operators. Not sure are the same that we saw in the previous plot. I think the one that we saw in the previous plots affect all this. 224 01:02:05.810 --> 01:02:32.379 WH11NE- Sunrise: all those type of things? Not necessarily and maybe and maybe models where you have. I don't know z prime type of things. Because they're kind of also complementary with the high energy there are. There are studies of complementarity with of the eft with from from Scc and schh home, or other high energy. There is a recent paper. 225 01:02:32.430 --> 01:02:52.040 WH11NE- Sunrise: I think, also for the strategy that compares, like all the different energies of. So it's I think it's a very good question, and I think that the answer is that I'm not sure that those operators would would impact this type of signature, but I admit that I would have to ask. 226 01:02:52.650 --> 01:02:54.139 WH11NE- Sunrise: It's very interesting. 227 01:02:56.310 --> 01:02:59.640 WH11NE- Sunrise: Also, the hardest is a different one. 228 01:02:59.990 --> 01:03:17.329 WH11NE- Sunrise: No, because I'm just thinking of recasting something. But this, these are really different also from there you do eft when you have no chance of producing the part, because if you can produce them, it's much 229 01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:27.169 WH11NE- Sunrise: easier to see them rather than to see an effect in a couple right. But but his question is, from those coupling up. 230 01:03:27.340 --> 01:03:41.729 WH11NE- Sunrise: can we from those to see this one. Yeah, my, my question was really, let's say you have h and l at certain energy and certain coupling. 231 01:03:41.970 --> 01:04:11.860 WH11NE- Sunrise: would you? Would you 1st see it in the electro week precision picture, or you 1st see it in direct searches definitely, if it's possible to reach. Now, of course, there are loopholes, because if you will now run 200 inverse autobars at the Zd. But typically you do eft only when you don't have a hope of seeing them directly. 232 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:40.420 WH11NE- Sunrise: And that's true for the Lhc as well. Not just, for I guess one can not to do for pessimistic conservative theories. Yeah, let me. Let me just make a point. But I don't want to delay this conversation too much. If your eft constraints are priority, exclude that part of a phase space. Then what I'm saying is. 233 01:04:40.510 --> 01:05:09.189 WH11NE- Sunrise: you're much less likely to see something directly in that region, right? Because you you have to bypass the electoral constraints in order to see something there that doesn't show up. Yeah, the thing is right. 234 01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:17.090 WH11NE- Sunrise: or or in simple words, the Ccft goes in a phase, space, and that is not accessible. They want accessible with better search. 235 01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:33.749 WH11NE- Sunrise: I guess. But yeah, no, it's a. It's an interesting comment. That is also true that with all this precision as well, depending how quickly you can get them. That. Also, you know, in comparison with it, can it can give you directions. 236 01:05:33.860 --> 01:05:44.309 WH11NE- Sunrise: but precision is always a a tricky game, as as we all know. I I also like searches. I mean, I also know that searches is a tricky game, but nowadays 237 01:05:45.100 --> 01:06:05.090 WH11NE- Sunrise: you need to do both. So what I like of this machine, in fact, is actually that you can do both. And I think we forget this other part in general. So that's why I'm happy that you were here to listen, because maybe I get you a few interesting things to look at the at. The this can also be true, you know, with other 238 01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:15.820 WH11NE- Sunrise: incarnation of of a plus and minus. Of course, you would like to have larger statistics, so so circular, better than linear for that. 239 01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:23.520 WH11NE- Sunrise: if we don't have more question, we have time back to each other.