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v3.3.3-pre
Present: Kilian Lieret, Sam Meehan, Clemens Lange, David Lange, Mark Neubauer, Adam Parker, Mason Louis Proffitt, Eduardo Rodrigues, Henry Schreiner, Dan Katz
Apologies: Graeme (meeting clash), Sudhir (ill)
Eduardo’s talk was recorded
pyHEP uses gitter channels for a lot of communication
Very low overlap between SWC and pyHEP conference audience (very different levels, pyHEP becomes relevant a year later)
pyHEP training focuses on specific python packages: awkward-array, uproot, etc. -- it does not focus on training the basics of python and vcs/git
Important to at least make SWC attendees aware of pyHEP material (e.g. slides with links in the last session)
In the past (last SWC), the last day covered material from pyHEP
Style of pyHEP trainings: Jupyter notebook (hosted de-centrally)
Henry: Jupyterbook as a new training format: Collections of notebooks together with table of contents rendered into webpage https://jupyterbook.org
somewhere in between plain juptyer notebooks (where participants only shift-enter everything) and very verbose carpentry-style websites
Examples:
https://cranmer.github.io/madminer-tutorial/intro
https://henryiii.github.io/compclass-book/week1/0_IntroductionAndLogin
Jupyterbook might be bridge between SWC-style HSF/training modules and HSP/pyhep training
Sam: Might do a small pyhep/training bootcamp, where we create a new jupyter-book style module
Carpentry-style trainings are well-tested now, this would be a first, so need to test this
HSF-pyHEP is curious about our experiences with software training: How can training sessions be made more didactic and a better experience for students.
It would be nice to provide a similar look and feeling for both pyHEP and HSF material: Students profit from perceived consistency and homogeneous feeling
Might do a combined advanced-SWC + pyHEP training workshop?
https://hsf-training.github.io/analysis-essentials/git/03-create.html : LHCb Starterkit material, ALICE etc.
Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1saqe1J0VHPd0x6dEjk5LBLf53camnW2U-QA02y0rjPQ/edit#slide=id.p
Use “awesome H(tautau) analysis” as playground also for merge conflicts etc.?
Organizing discussion with theorists was difficult
Dinner was a nice addition (IRISH-HEP covered food, drinks: 8 franks per person, ): Makes it an "official" event, such that people who sign out actually show up. Good for networking and fostering real connections. Makes it feel like a real conference (not just another training session)
Criticism: Rooms (too cramped), too small screens?
Length of workshop:
Sam: 3 full days are the maximum number of days for training that participants can handle
CMS has 1 week long analysis starterkits (--> Clemens)
Most students can’t handle 8h of pure information
Important to have enough breaks
Depends on how much material builds on itself/cascades; if workshop consists of lots of orthogonal modules, it can be longer
Might need to advertise HSF and training material etc. more (lot’s of people aren’t aware of it). Eduardo: Important to have contacts in the different collaborations and advertise the material on the mailing lists. `
Future instructors: Lot’s of participants want to teach themselves; collected their emails
VIP workshop for seniors (most training workshops aimed at young people)
Have small numbers of seniors also in “normal” trainings, but could increase that by specifically targeting seniors
Might be uncomfortable for seniors to ask “stupid questions” openly? → survey
Might do survey:
E.g.: How comfortable are you with X?
Eduardo made a large LHCb survey. Specifically stress that also the opinion of the seniors is requested here
Clemens: Would ideally need two large screens (one for vidyo webcasting for remote participants and for the slides)
For the Software Carpentry event we have said “postponed”, which I think means that when we find another date we keep the registrations as they are, but we confirm with people their continued interest in attending.
I think there’s no point at all in trying to reschedule in advance of June; I had a quick look at the Indico calendar and Kjell Johnsen is fairly busy all of June; virtually unused in July (could tentatively book 7-10 July…?)
Can’t schedule anything, before CERN revises Covid-19 rules.
Do we want to announce support for self-study in the old slot?
Status of the lessons:
Software Carpentry core lessons are complete;
material on ML and numpy it’s less clear that this exists in a shape where it can be used;
Mason’s uproot+awkward is in decent shape AFAICR.
Life support (chat etc.):
If yes, how do we do it? Mattermost channel? (Then people could break out into a permanent Vidyo room for the event if needed?)
(22 June - 1 July), https://indico.in2p3.fr/event/20306/
Thomas Vuillaume is organising: thomas.vuillaume@lapp.in2p3.fr
Mason agreed to re-teach his uproot+awkward tutorial as a HEP domain specific part (thanks!)
There is 12 hours scheduled for Machine Learning topics in the school; we are trying to identify suitable material and tutors for this
Kevin Nelson (Michigan) did volunteer to help (thanks!)
Discussed with Martino the material (as he was going to do a scikit-learn session for us); carpentries are developing something (https://github.com/machinelearningcarpentry/machine-learning-novice) but it’s little more than a skeleton
Do people have knowledge of other material we could use?
Would people like to get involved in developing material like this in the next few months?
Are other people interested in helping out at the event itself? Let Graeme know.
Adam has time to work on modules for uproot, etc.