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RadCam - Magics company discussion
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Europe/Zurich
Description
Introduction to Magics Vision Series
Minutes from David:
Present: Me, Stephane, Federico (CERN), Jelle Van Rethy, Teodolinda De Dellis, and one american guy (MAGICS)
- I do bit of intro, Stephane presents how BTVs work, we present sort of summary why we look into radhard cam products.
- Stephane informs that our yearly TID is around 100kGray
- Discussion follows on SEU. **Stephane informs, that SEU is for us more important to TID as high brilliance beams considerably increase probability of SEU**
- Jelle presents their product line, starting at imaging chip, through serializer and DCDC supplies. **Evidently the data going out of chip are the same format like chip from ISAE**
- Clocking is 20MHz, but after further questioning it turns out that imaging chip **contains PLL generating higher frequency to be able to pass all those data through camera link.** Based on that I ask what is the pixel integration time. Jelle answers that it depends of frame rate, but it can go down to like 200ms when using 5Hz frame rate.
- The data are serialized and streamed through CXP phy using 1.25G downlink and 20MBit uplink. The same cable **can** be used for power supply
- The chip is electronic rolling shutter. For me it means that this is the same technology as ISAE again, just they provide HW trigger signal **and SW as well through SPI which goes over CXP uplink**
- Imager **must be configured** prior to use through SPI. Multiple parameters to setup, as zoom lens and dataframe rate
- **IMAGER IS NOT SEU TESTED AT ALL**, they've been quite fuzzying around. As I understand the situation is that:
- they made engineering samples(ES) on a wafer
- few of the chips were tested for TID, but nothing tested for SEU
- for the development we could get only ES, but not qualified. Those qualified they feed to another customers
- they get another batch to be tested for the end of the year, **but again, not clear whether this is TID, or SEU, as at certain point Jelle said, that they have no intention for SEU testing unless it is an interesting batch of chips**
- They do not guarantee long-term stocks unless we explicitly as for it (and - of course pay a lot), so no guarantee that in 10-15 years the chips will be available
- Question came from Jelle on how much integration time we need: Stephane answers that depends of sensibility we would be interested to go to seconds
- Discussing radiation hard CXP cables: **The non-rad hard variant can transmit to like 200m, but rad-hard only to 50meters**. CXP re-translators they do not have, pointing that rad-hard version probably does not exist. I remark that we would not need rad-hard in this case, and they admit that there might be commercial products doing CXP retranslation.
- American guy asks for radiation source for SEU: Stephane explains that we do not have single particle type causing this, but rather a soup of particles (high-energy hadrons, neutrons ...), so difficult to estimate the main source
- Dead pixels discussion: Jelle admits they have, however reluctant to put on a table any number. But admitted that they had cases with entire rows and columns. On my question whether these they would consider OK - Jelle (after *some hesitation*) answers that they *would probably not* pass the QC (????!)
- Power consumption: Imaging sensor less than 1W, supplied by 3.3V (i/o + analogue) and 1.8V (onchip digital and analogue). Cameralink output is 3.3V
- **PRICING!!:**
- evaluation kit 22kE
- only the imaging part is 8-10kE!!, and when I've asked for pricing over 50 the answer was not 'that sure', claiming that they *might** go to like 20% cheaper
- We've discussed timescale, Stephane claiming that tender will be done such, that the purchase should happen 2026-2028 due to LS3
- **NDA**: they require signing when giving us data for radiation test. I question further NDA for publications, it appears that we do not get any data we were not allowed to publish except of those radiation tests. And actually they have put it on the table the way that 'it would be nice if we give them eventually the article to read and redact BEFORE publication'. Which seems to be a bit odd, as they would for sure not like if we've found something wrong in their design.
- **Number of deliverables**: Stephane specifies ~50 pcs, they will provide quota for 1 and 50pcs such, that we could have a look. I remark, that we want a quota for **qualified chips**, not engineering samples.
- Federico proposes CHARM to be used at CERN if we get one chip on hands. At first Teodolina says that it is not that interesting for them as it would have limited impact on other customers, however few minutes later she admits that it is actually a good idea. **She mentioned that they do the tests at SCKCM???? I could not find**.
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