513/1-024 (CERN)



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DOMA/ACCESS Kickoff meeting: 4th Sep 2018

Present: M. Lassnig, Jarka, O. Keeble, Mihai, D. Smith, M.Schulz, X. Espinal
Remote: S. Fuess, C. Perez, C. Biscarat, D. Spiga, D. Weitzel, D. Ciangotti, D. Duellman, L. Sexton-Kennedy, F. Furano, F. Wuerthwein, F. Le Flour, H. Severini, M. Girone, J. Flix, J. Starek, L. Duflot, M. Martinez, P. Millar, R. Currie, R. Gardner, S.Chrystel, S. Skipsey, S. McKee, S. Pardi, S. Campana, W. Yang, S. Jezequel
Apologies: B. Bockelman

Mandate and goals
Started the meeting with the discussion about the future group mandate and scope. Main scope is the data access by applications including content delivery services and networks, smart clients, caching solutions for LHC experiments and sciences with similar requirements. Special emphasis should places towards providing a forum to share experience on analysis workloads and future developments across experiments (ie. ML and compact data formats for analysis)

A primary goals has been identified: provide a priority lists for ongoing and future R+D projects and developments on data access, to ensure it is aligned with the overall DOMA strategic vision for HL-LHC. Special emphasis on fostering collaboration across experiments, infrastructures and storage providers.

The working group will track and report on the progress of the identified topics at the required fora: DOMA, MB, etc.

Action item: rewrite mandate in text-like format to present to the MB et al.

Meeting Organisation and Activities:

Need for experienced chairs, rooted to an experiment and strong site involvement, preferably a large T2s as these are the infrastructures that are more likely to evolve. Having secretaries is advisable to liberate chairs workload.

Frank Wuerthwein volunteered to be one of the chairs. He is heavily involved in CMS and IN San Diego Tier-2. He propose to set the first goals and emphasis towards the upcoming LHCC review and the TDR preparations. Valuable input might come from this working group for this two important milestones process. Frank pointed out that there is strong need to extend bridges across US and EU so both sided are well aware of the activities. 

Simone pointed out that the HSF/WLCG workshop in early 2019 (to be scheduled soon) is the place to address and ensure activity alignment across communities and experiments and also the scenario to orchestrate overall preparations for the LHCC review. The DOMA/ACCESS group should provide input and proposal for specific activities so then R+D projects and working groups can be created.
Frank propose to divide parts of the scope, which is huge and very varied. Subdivide applications patterns and how infrastructures deal with it.

Markus disagree on this and support to get real measurements rather than pre-conceived ideas. Expert teams need to investigate concrete topics and report back to avoid cluttering of meetings with a large number of participants and achieve in acceptable time goals that require exchange on a high technical level

Mario suggest experiment independent measurements but with a coherent scope in mind across them (comparable sizes, types) with the aim for a posteriori joining of results and efforts within the working group.

Mario also added that what we need to ensure is that the priorities set forth by the WG are in line with the requirements gathered from the experiments, towards a common strategic vision.

Markus agree to have experiment agnostic results for better coherence and site comprehensive approach to follow-up the results/recommendations. 

Compare the workloads of different experiments is complex, and need a place where to compare this in a reasonable way and report it (Cost Model working group ?)

Action: active search for second chair in Europe.

Future meetings:

Agreed to start with a fortnightly meeting at the start and envision a monthly meeting in the future.

Frank suggest to have a face to face meeting at the upcoming HEPIX in Barcelona. Pepe confirms meeting room is available after the last evening sessions and can be used for about an hour.

Action: follow-up on HEPIX face to face meeting 


Pepe suggest to encourage participation of the T1s and offer PIC as an institute willing to contribute in the group activities, specially in the framework of data federations (ongoing project in Spain)

Stephane announced that France is actively discussing the participation on this working group: Tier-2s and Tier-1s will come back with a plan. 

Mario stated that Rucio team will also actively contribute to this working group.

There are minutes attached to this event. Show them.
    • 17:30 17:35
      Introduction 5m
    • 17:35 18:20
      DOMA/ACCESS group mandate discussion 45m
    • 18:20 18:30
      AOB 10m